# Unusual substitution in Sunday night's Cubs game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191 "2009-07-16T04:00:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/21 "2009-07-17T14:28:59Z")
> [@whitetho](#): > > Many decades ago, I vaguely remember this happening at a Washington Senators game. And, if my vague memory is to be trusted, the pitcher temporarily became the second baseman, where he cleanly handled a grounder. That may be the Cleveland Indians game I was thinking of! If memory serves, I think Alvin Dark moved Sam McDowell - a hard throwing lefty - to second to pitch around the Senators’ powerful right hand hitter Frank “The Washington Monument” “Hondo” “Capital Punishment” Howard. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/22 "2009-07-17T14:44:12Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Definitely something that should be more common. Much like abolishing the closer and using your best RP in the toughest situation. It would be interesting if a team, maybe a low budget one like the Pirates or Nationals, were to do this regularly and made an effort to acquire pitchers with good outfield gloves and practiced them that way. > > I have to think that it’d be worth a try and would put some asses in the seats at the least while you tested it out. I think this is the important part. Baseball tends to be so very, very conservative in its managerial decisions. When someone does well with a certain type of decision, everyone jumps on the bandwagon, and it’s almost impossible to get off the merry-go-round. Anytime someone does something even a little “deviant”, you want to applaud them for it. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/23 "2009-07-17T15:34:30Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I think this is the important part. Baseball tends to be so very, very conservative in its managerial decisions. When someone does well with a certain type of decision, everyone jumps on the bandwagon, and it’s almost impossible to get off the merry-go-round. Anytime someone does something even a little “deviant”, you want to applaud them for it. I agree. As a Giants fan, I’d love to see Bochy & Righetti try a four-man rotation, with a long reliever (read: Zito) available to spot-start when there’s not a day off, or when Johnson needs an extra day’s rest. ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/24 "2009-07-17T17:36:49Z")
It had to have been the late 70s or early 80s but Chuck Tanner did this with the Pirates when they were playing the Cubs at Wrigley. He moved the closer, Kent Tekulve into left field in order to get the lefty/righty advantage pitching. Sure enough the batter hit it to Tekulve (an ungainly man at best) who somehow made the catch. ---
**Author:** ![CapnPitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/edb3f5/32.png) [@CapnPitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CapnPitt)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/25 "2009-07-17T17:46:25Z")
memory was a little off…looks like the game was at Candlestick. [boxscore](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN197909011.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Obeseus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbce88/32.png) [@Obeseus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obeseus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2009, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/26 "2009-07-18T03:05:56Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > I believe the first documented use of this strategy was by Paul Richards during the 1950’s, when he temporarily shuffled Harry Dorish off to third base (against a left-handed pull hitter, no doubt). That lefthanded pull hitter was Ted Williams. The earliest such substitution known to me occurred July 25, 1908, New York @ Detroit. NY manager Kid Elberfeld moved pitcher Jack Chesbro to first base for one batter. Instead of bringing in another pitcher, though, Chesbro switched positions with first baseman Hal Chase pitching to one batter, Claude Rossman. Chase got the out, and the pair switched back. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/27 "2009-07-19T03:00:47Z")
> [@Obeseus](#): > > The earliest such substitution known to me occurred July 25, 1908, New York @ Detroit. NY manager Kid Elberfeld moved pitcher Jack Chesbro to first base for one batter. Instead of bringing in another pitcher, though, Chesbro switched positions with first baseman Hal Chase pitching to one batter, Claude Rossman. Chase got the out, and the pair switched back. That’s bizarre, since Chase wasn’t a pitcher. It appears from Chase’s stat line that Rossman sacrificed, which is even more bizarre. Do you have any knowledge as to what New York’s motivation was for making such an unusual move? ---
**Author:** ![Obeseus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbce88/32.png) [@Obeseus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obeseus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2009, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/28 "2009-07-19T07:15:21Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Do you have any knowledge as to what New York’s motivation was for making such an unusual move? I don’t know. Rossman was hitless in the game, which makes it even more odd. Rossman hit a run-scoring fly ball to left off Chase. (Sacrifice flies were not a separate stat at the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/29 "2009-07-20T17:25:08Z")
Apparently Hal Chase (never known for his modesty) had done a little pitching in minor league and winter ball and had been agitating for a chance to pitch in the majors. According to [a biography of Chase](http://books.google.com/books?id=7zDkw7-wq_kC&pg=PA58&lpg=PA58&dq=Chase+Chesbro+Rossman&source=bl&ots=-q9RsHsNed&sig=1OGLhd3nsYzHAvJ8qMjESYTQ3cM&hl=en&ei=waNkSoOmC4raNuyY8fcB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2), > [@](#): > > Elberfeld knew that Rossman always hit well against Chesbro, but the Yankee bullpen was in sorry shape. He decided to discuss the situation with Chesbro. As Elberfeld made his way to the pitching mound Chase joined him and begged for a chance to pitch. Elberfeld decided to let Chase pitch to Rossman and kept Chesbro in the game by moving him to first base. Chase’s major league pitching career lasted just one pitch; Rossman hit his first delivery for a long sacrifice fly to center field, scoring Cobb, and Elberfled yelled for Chase and Chesbro to resume their former positions. A most unusual move indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Zen\_Postman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4da419/32.png) [@Zen\_Postman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zen_Postman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/30 "2009-07-21T04:40:03Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > That may be the Cleveland Indians game I was thinking of! If memory serves, I think Alvin Dark moved Sam McDowell - a hard throwing lefty - to second to pitch around the Senators’ powerful right hand hitter Frank “The Washington Monument” “Hondo” “Capital Punishment” Howard. This was the second major league game that I ever attended. See the boxscore [here](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CLE/CLE197007060.shtml) The game, where McDowell played first, was later that season, against the same team.[boxscore](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/WS2/WS2197009020.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![Zen\_Postman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4da419/32.png) [@Zen\_Postman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zen_Postman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/31 "2009-07-21T04:47:41Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > It was Davey Johnson of the Mets, and he kept shuttling Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell in extra innings between LF and the mound, depending on the platoon advantage. I’ll try to find the game in question… While, I’m at it, I saw this game on TV. The only reason the game was in extra innings is because Dave Parker dropped a flyball during the ninth. [I’ll take Pitchers Named McDowell Playing Out of Position for $1000, Alex](http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN198607220.shtml) I checked the game log and Parker’s drop was indeed, during the ninth…of a game played 23 years ago. Funny, how I can remember crap like this, but I’m forgetting my kids’ names. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/32 "2009-07-23T14:14:27Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I saw a game once where Staub was thrown out at 2nd on a routine hit to rightfield. I fail to see why this was noteworthy. Was Staub trying to stretch a single into a double? If so, that happens frequently. Was it a typo and Staub got thrown at 1st? Ok that is would be slooooow. Was Staub already on 1st base? OK, that would be slooooooooooooooowww. When Staub was with the Expos, he was known as Le Grand Orange. He was a favorite of mine when I was a kid. IME, standout pitchers in High School generally played outfield positions on their off pitching days. They are generally one of the better hitters on the High school teams. It is not unrealistic to think that a pitcher could play an outfield position with some profiency. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191/33 "2009-07-23T20:32:36Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > Was Staub already on 1st base? OK, that would be slooooooooooooooowww. This. 😉 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusual-substitution-in-sunday-nights-cubs-game/503191.md?page=1)