# Unusually High Estimate of Catholic Priest Abuse of Children
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 2, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894 "2012-06-02T21:51:27Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/21 "2012-06-05T03:50:02Z")
I think the major problem isn’t so much that the number of abusers in the Catholic church are higher, it’s that the way the problem was dealt with. If the Vatican had actually made an effort to toss these guys out, instead of sweeping it under the rug, and enabling it, it probably wouldn’t be such a huge stigma on the Church.
Most priests aren’t molestors, but the ones who were/are got away with it, because the church didn’t do what was needed. THAT’S probably why there’s such a perception that there’s a larger number of child abusers in the church.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/22 "2012-06-05T04:26:59Z")
It’s also more distinct in that in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual in nature whereas in the Catholic church it was overwhelmingly homosexual.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/23 "2012-06-05T05:14:20Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> It’s also more distinct in that in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual in nature whereas in the Catholic church it was overwhelmingly homosexual.
Cite?
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/24 "2012-06-05T05:15:23Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> I think the major problem isn’t so much that the number of abusers in the Catholic church are higher, it’s that the way the problem was dealt with. If the Vatican had actually made an effort to toss these guys out, instead of sweeping it under the rug, and enabling it, it probably wouldn’t be such a huge stigma on the Church.
>
> Most priests aren’t molestors, but the ones who were/are got away with it, because the church didn’t do what was needed. THAT’S probably why there’s such a perception that there’s a larger number of child abusers in the church.
No doubt, this has a lot to do with it. Early on, this was dealt with very poorly.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/25 "2012-06-05T05:22:47Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> It’s also more distinct in that in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual in nature whereas in the Catholic church it was overwhelmingly homosexual.
Child molestation is generally not considered to be a homo/heterosexual oriented thing. :dubious:
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/26 "2012-06-05T16:13:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Child molestation is generally not considered to be a homo/heterosexual oriented thing. :dubious:
Diagnostically that may be perfectly true, but the lay public does not make that distinction, to them it’s a bunch of predatory faggots molesting young boys, and that makes it especially repulsive and (ot them) distinct from the Baptist, Methodist, Pentcostal etc, pastors seducing teenaged girls.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/27 "2012-06-05T16:20:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Cite?
Seriously?
OK
> **[Catholic Church sexual abuse cases](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases)**
>
> God
>
> Schools
> Relations with:
> [@](#):
>
> The 2004 John Jay Report commissioned by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) was based on surveys completed by the Roman Catholic dioceses in the United States. The surveys filtered provided information from diocesan files on each priest accused of sexual abuse and on each of the priest’s victims to the research team, in a format which did not disclose the names of the accused priests or the dioceses where they worked. The dioceses were encouraged to issue reports of their own based on the surveys that they had completed.
>
> The 2004 John Jay Report[14] was based on a study of 10,667 allegations against 4,392 priests accused of engaging in sexual abuse of a minor between 1950 and 2002.
>
> The report stated there were approximately 10,667 reported victims (younger than 18 years) of clergy sexual abuse during this period:
> \*\* Around 81% of these victims were male.\*\*
> 22.6% were age 10 or younger, 51% were between the ages of 11 and 14, and 27% were between the ages to 15 to 17 years.[15][16][17]
> A substantial number (almost 2000) of very young children were victimized by priests during this time period.
> 9,281 victim surveys had information about an investigation. In 6,696 (72%) cases, an investigation of the allegation was carried out. Of these, 4,570 (80%) were substantiated; 1,028 (18%) were unsubstantiated; 83 (1.5%) were found to be false. In 56 cases, priests were reported to deny the allegations.
> More than 10 percent of these allegations were characterized as not substantiated. (This does not mean that the allegation was false; it means only that the diocese or order could not determine whether the alleged abuse actually took place.)
> For approximately 20 percent of the allegations, the priest was deceased or inactive at the time of the receipt of the allegation and typically no investigation was conducted in these circumstances.
> In 38.4% of allegations, the abuse is alleged to have occurred within a single year, in 21.8% the alleged abuse lasted more than a year but less than 2 years, in 28% between 2 and 4 years, in 10.2% between 5 and 9 years and, in under 1%, 10 or more years.
>
> The 4,392 priests who were accused amount to approximately 4% of the 109,694 priests in active ministry during that time. Of these 4,392, approximately:
> 56 percent had one reported allegation against them; 27 percent had two or three allegations against them; nearly 14 percent had four to nine allegations against them; 3 percent (149 priests) had 10 or more allegations against them. These 149 priests were responsible for almost 3,000 victims, or 27 percent of the allegations.[15]
> The allegations were substantiated for 1,872 priests and unsubstantiated for 824 priests. They were thought to be credible for 1,671 priests and not credible for 345 priests. 298 priests and deacons who had been completely exonerated are not included in the study.
> 50 percent were 35 years of age or younger at the time of the first instance of alleged abuse.[15]
> Almost 70 percent were ordained before 1970.[15]
> Fewer than 7 percent were reported to have themselves been victims of physical, sexual or emotional abuse as children. Although 19 percent had alcohol or substance abuse problems, 9 percent were reported to have been using drugs or alcohol during the instances of abuse.[15]
>
> Many of the reported acts of sexual abuse involved fondling or unspecified abuse. There was also a large number of allegations of forced acts of oral sex and intercourse. Detailed information on the nature of the abuse was not reported for 26.6% of the reported allegations. 27.3% of the allegations involved the cleric performing oral sex on the victim. 25.1% of the allegations involved penile penetration or attempted penetration.
>
> Although there were reported acts of sexual abuse of minors in every year, the incidence of reported abuse increased by several orders of magnitude in the 1960s and 1970s. There was, for example, a more than sixfold increase in the number of reported acts of abuse of males aged 11 to 17 between the 1950s and the 1970s. After peaking in the 1970s, the number of incidents decreased through the 1980s and 1990s even more sharply than the incidence rate had increased in the 1960s and 1970s.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/28 "2012-06-06T00:43:24Z")
That may be the public perception, but that’s not how pedophilia works – although some are attracted to one sex or another, it’s generally not considered to be a “gay or straight” thing. And describing it as such tends to reinforce stereotypes of gays as “perverts” and “child molestors”.
I believe the higher estimate of males being abused has to do with the fact that up until about twenty-years ago, and even then only in some dioceses, altar servers were exclusively boys. That’s not the case now (although, as I said, it varies from different dioceses/parishes.)
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/29 "2012-06-06T01:06:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> That may be the public perception, but that’s not how pedophilia works – although some are attracted to one sex or another, it’s generally not considered to be a “gay or straight” thing. And describing it as such tends to reinforce stereotypes of gays as “perverts” and “child molestors”.
>
> I believe the higher estimate of males being abused has to do with the fact that up until about twenty-years ago, and even then only in some dioceses, altar servers were exclusively boys. That’s not the case now (although, as I said, it varies from different dioceses/parishes.)
So you think if there were equally accessible altar girls in the past that it would not be primarily male on male molestation? Just my opinion, but I think you would be very wrong if that was your conclusion.
For a variety of reasons, relative to standard population demographics, there is a massive over-representation of homosexual men as priests in the American Catholic Church. This does not mean they are inclined to be child molesters as a function of being homosexual any more than heterosexuals, but it does mean that for that small proportion of them that are inclined to be child molesters, they are far more likely to be same sex child molesters.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/30 "2012-06-06T02:16:42Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> Seriously?
>
> OK
> [Catholic Church sexual abuse cases - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_cases)
Umm that is interesting but it does not state that Catholic abuse is _more often_ same sex \*than in other churches \* where it would be thus opposite sex.
Once you are talking pedophilia (as opposed to ephebophilia) then as **Guinastasia** sez, the sex of the victims is not all that critical. Just their age.
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### Author:  [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/31 "2012-06-06T02:40:00Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> Child molestation is generally not considered to be a homo/heterosexual oriented thing. :dubious:
Really? All the stuff I’ve read in the news about various cases (not just priests) over the years suggests that most pedophiles have a strong preference.
Plus the way the church social arrangements were structured over the years, especially decades ago, priests were more likely to encounter young boys in rather private situations than young girls. Add to that the likelihood that young men who did not feel strong attraction to girls (their own age) were more likely to pick the priesthoood and expect a life of chastity.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/32 "2012-06-06T02:42:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Umm that is interesting but it does not state that Catholic abuse is _more often_ same sex \*than in other churches \* where it would be thus opposite sex.
I like to think I can read English, but I’m not even sure what this sentence means. I’ve tried parsing it a few different ways, but it’s still just a word salad.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/33 "2012-06-06T03:14:57Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> So you think if there were equally accessible altar girls in the past that it would not be primarily male on male molestation? Just my opinion, but I think you would be very wrong if that was your conclusion.
I think your opinion may be misinformed, though: see below.
> [@astro](#):
>
> For a variety of reasons, relative to standard population demographics, there is a massive over-representation of homosexual men as priests in the American Catholic Church. This does not mean they are inclined to be child molesters as a function of being homosexual any more than heterosexuals, but it does mean that for that small proportion of them that are inclined to be child molesters, they are far more likely to be same sex child molesters.
There are two statements here that you think are related, but actually are not:
1. The Catholic priesthood has a higher incidence of male homosexuals than the general adult male population. ([Probably true](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholic_priests), although exact figures are unobtainable.)
2. The gender that child molesters prefer in their victims correlates with the individual molester’s adult sexual orientation: that is, (male) child molesters who identify as heterosexual preferentially molest girl children while those who identify as homosexual preferentially molest boy children. ([False](http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html), AFAICT.)
There seems to be no reliable correlation between molestation-victim gender preferences and regular adult sexual orientation. For one thing, many child molesters don’t even **have** an identifiable adult “sexual orientation”, since they’re not attracted to fellow adults.
For instance, many of them molest children of either gender with no particular preference, but that doesn’t make them “bisexual”. AFAICT, gender-indifferent child molesters are a much higher proportion of the molester population than active bisexuals are of the normal adult male population.
So you can’t reliably estimate the prevalence of male-on-male as opposed to male-on-female child molestation within a certain group by using the prevalence of homosexual males as opposed to heterosexual males as a yardstick or proxy for it. Normal adult sexuality, of whatever orientation, and child sexual abuse really are two different kettles of fish. You can’t predict much about the latter by appealing to statistics about the former.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/34 "2012-06-06T04:07:21Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> It’s also more distinct in that in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual in nature whereas in the Catholic church it was overwhelmingly homosexual.
Did you not say here that \*in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual \*, and then implied it was different in the Catholic church as it was overwhelmingly homosexual?
Now, where does your cite say anything about “other churches” as opposed to the Catholic Church? You cite does mention a rate of same sex molestation in the CC. Where does it say that rate is high or where does it compare that to molestation IN OTHER CHURCHES?
**Kimstu** has a fact filled post there about sexual molestation. I suggest you read it.
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### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/35 "2012-06-06T05:09:26Z")
That whole study sucked. It basically blamed the abuse scandal on the ‘sexual revolution’ and ‘outside forces’. :rolleyes:
Also…in Protestant churches, the allegations are more likely to be aimed at laystaff or volunteers - not clergy.
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### Author:  [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/36 "2012-06-06T05:48:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Did you not say here that \*in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual \*, and then implied it was different in the Catholic church as it was overwhelmingly homosexual?
>
> Now, where does your cite say anything about “other churches” as opposed to the Catholic Church? You cite does mention a rate of same sex molestation in the CC. Where does it say that rate is high or where does it compare that to molestation IN OTHER CHURCHES?
>
> **Kimstu** has a fact filled post there about sexual molestation. I suggest you read it.
I assumed you were expressing doubt re my assertion that Catholic Church molestion was overwhelmingly homosexual. I provided a cite showing 81% of the molestation was men molesting boys. And now …if i understand correctly… you are asking for a cite that this 81% same sex ratio is far higher than would normally be found in instances of molestation of children happening in non-Catholic churches?
Again .. seriously?
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/37 "2012-06-06T13:02:41Z")
> [@astro](#):
>
> It’s also more distinct in that in other churches the sexual misconduct is often heterosexual in nature whereas in the Catholic church it was overwhelmingly homosexual.
Cite?
Either you can back it up or you can’t.
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### Author:  [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/38 "2012-06-06T15:33:51Z")
I think that’s pretty hard to prove. There doesn’t seem to be a study like the Jay study (which was a little bit of BS but the only one we really have).
But here’s [one link](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2482&dat=20020405&id=qzdJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gwwNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1294,1328940). Again, there doesn’t seem to be hard data, so there’s not much that can be proved or disproved. But I don’t think **astro’s** conclusions are that spectacular. When we hear of non-Catholic clergy scandals, it’s usually about:
- Mormons and girls
- Jehovah’s witnesses and girls
- Pastors or youth pastors having sex with teenage girls
- Pastors having sex with adult women (affairs) but they are, of course, in a ‘position of trust’
…and yet we still don’t hear about them very much.
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### Author:  [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/39 "2012-06-06T16:10:30Z")
I don’t find the stat that surprising. I don’t think people joining the priesthood necessarily have to be deviants starting out…the whole celibacy thing is going to mess you up eventually. They’re not even supposed to choke the chicken so that’s a lot of latent desire building up that could eventually be attached to an inappropriate target.
As for the homosexual thing, I would suspect that most of the abusers of boys are probably straight (or straight-ish). For many priests a choir boy might be the closest thing to a woman they have regular private contact with.
I am not condoning anyone’s actions, and no, I am not attracted to minors myself.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unusually-high-estimate-of-catholic-priest-abuse-of-children/623894/40 "2012-06-08T00:04:53Z")
> [@md2000](#):
>
> Really? All the stuff I’ve read in the news about various cases (not just priests) over the years suggests that most pedophiles have a strong preference.
>
> Plus the way the church social arrangements were structured over the years, especially decades ago, priests were more likely to encounter young boys in rather private situations than young girls. Add to that the likelihood that young men who did not feel strong attraction to girls (their own age) were more likely to pick the priesthoood and expect a life of chastity.
I’m aware of them having a preference – but it’s not related to a normal hetero/homosexual orientation, is what I’m saying. You can have a straight man who also is attracted to little boys, for example. That’s IF, mind you, they’re even attracted to adults at all. Pedophilia is a different orientation in and over itself.
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