# Unwanted sexual contact with no victim complaint. Okay? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 16, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680 "2018-03-16T17:56:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/1 "2018-03-16T17:56:24Z")
As a hypothetical, a person in a position of some power over someone else knows that the person of lesser power does not want specific physical/sexual contact and they do impose it upon them anyway, or possibly precisely because they knew of the objection and thought it would be funny. It is witnessed by many, many of whom laugh at the victim’s response. The perpetrator is a celebrity. The victim of the unwanted contact later says that despite having been touched sexually in an unwanted manner they do not think they have been sexually harassed. What is an appropriate response by the public? What, if anything, should be demanded of the celebrity? Does it matter if you personally would not have objected to the contact? [Link](https://www.glamour.com/story/katy-perry-american-idol-kiss-raises-consent-debate) to the specific circumstance inspiration for the question as an abstract, but please consider your response to the abstract before clicking and considering the specific as well. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/2 "2018-03-16T18:18:26Z")
In the abstract, it depends on the type of contact. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/3 "2018-03-16T18:23:36Z")
As a general rule, if the “victim” doesn’t care, I’m not going to bust myself up caring for them. I’m sure we can find exceptions but that’s my regular standard. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/4 "2018-03-16T18:34:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Does it matter if you personally would not have objected to the contact? No. Because the next victim may feel more strongly about the matter than the person depicted in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Peebles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Jim\_Peebles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_Peebles)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/5 "2018-03-16T18:52:13Z")
Katy Perry also got similar criticism for a seperate incident shortly before the metoo movement took off: > **[Why Katy Perry Grabbing Shawn Mendes' Butt on the Red Carpet Is Not a Joke](https://www.seventeen.com/celebrity/news/a45570/kata-perry-grabs-shawn-mendes-butt/)** > > It actually highlights a serious double standard. I saw the recent one you mentioned above as a calculated publicity stunt. Yes, there is a double standard, and not enough people care to raise an objection. (As a side note: do a google news search for “red carpet butt grab”, and you will find several female celebrities go around grabbing people’s butts at them.) ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/6 "2018-03-16T19:02:41Z")
Is it not assault if a man beats his wife but she doesn’t press charges? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/7 "2018-03-16T19:03:15Z")
Wait a minute. In this situation, the perpetrator of the contact is described to have known that the receiver on the contact is not receptive, and they did it anyway. I think we can stop right there. Yes, that’s a problem. Everything else you’ve said is just window dressing. Person A aggressor knew it was unwanted and DID IT ANYWAY. It doesn’t matter if there are people there, although they are scum for allowing and laughing. It doesn’t matter if there person doesn’t want to say anything negative later, because many don’t. The aggressor was wrong. As far as the penalty, it depends on the contact, the age the perpetrator and the contactee, and state law. If all parties agree to settle, and the courts agree, then that’s up to them. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/8 "2018-03-16T19:14:17Z")
Opps. Wrong thread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/9 "2018-03-16T19:30:55Z")
Of course it’s sexual harassment. If you kiss somebody who you know doesn’t want to be kissed by you, that’s sexual harassment. And the fact that the victim let it go afterwards doesn’t change that. Especially in a case like this, where there’s a power imbalance between the victim and the harasser. No means no, even when it’s a man saying no to an attractive woman. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/10 "2018-03-16T19:46:56Z")
If the person is an adult, then I’m not going to respond at all. After all, if that person doesn’t consider it sexual harassment, who am I to say it is? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/11 "2018-03-16T19:50:06Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Opps. Wrong thread. I’ll say. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/12 "2018-03-16T20:06:00Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > If the person is an adult, then I’m not going to respond at all. After all, if that person doesn’t consider it sexual harassment, who am I to say it is? How else do people learn what is and isn’t sexual harassment? This is such a clear-cut case of explicit non-consent, yet someone in power doing it anyway. Most likely, the guy thinks it was harassment, but is playing nice just to make it all go away. But maybe he truly doesn’t think it’s harassment because he’s watched the same thing from the outside and apologists are quick to ignore it. Sooner or later we need to break that cycle and teach people like him that yes, this is harassment. Leaving it up to some naive, star-struck teenager to decide does a disservice to all the young boys and girls who are watching and think, “well, he said it was OK so I guess I must be wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/13 "2018-03-16T22:19:19Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > What is an appropriate response by the public? What, if anything, should be demanded of the celebrity? I think the public should be disappointed and the celebrity should at least apologize. It’s sexual harassment even if the victim puts up with it and in this case it’s a double standard . ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/14 "2018-03-16T23:57:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > What is an appropriate response by the public? What, if anything, should be demanded of the celebrity? At the very least, the celebrity should apologize and more importantly _stop doing it_. In nearly all of the cases that have hit the public, it’s not just the one time. There’s a pattern. The harasser has inflicted themselves upon a string of people (not just one) and a number of them didn’t say anything - not because they didn’t feel harassed, but because they thought there would be negative consequences for speaking out (among the consequences are that the person in power would retaliate against them). In this specific occurrence, at minimum, Ms. Perry needs to stop. (I never watched American Idol. Did Steven Tyler make teenagers kiss him before their auditions?). ABC & the production company should also rethink her position on the show. Because while this kid may not have minded - some other kid did/will. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/15 "2018-03-17T00:09:10Z")
I am imagining that the young man is thinking the negative consequence is creating a negative public perception of himself (and of his “masculinity”). Men don’t “whine”; they “suck it up.” He is trying to salvage the potential positive impact of his being on this show for his potential music career. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/16 "2018-03-17T00:28:36Z")
I agree. I feel that the kid absolutely does care that it happened and it makes him feel bad. But it makes him feel less bad than all of the publicity around being a public victim would make him feel. He’s really in the same place as all those people who are coming forward now were in when they were first harassed or attacked. It was easier and better for them to shake it off (so they assumed). I think the network should step up and do something. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/17 "2018-03-17T13:54:12Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Wait a minute. In this situation, the perpetrator of the contact is described to have known that the receiver on the contact is not receptive, and they did it anyway. I think we can stop right there. Yes, that’s a problem. Everything else you’ve said is just window dressing. > > […] This precisely. The kind of society I want to live in and want to help establish and maintain wouldn’t just accept this. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/18 "2018-03-17T14:06:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Does it matter if you personally would not have objected to the contact? No, it does not. Victims don’t determine what constitutes a crime or an offense. And this is a good thing. It explains why complaints about workplace harrassment can be filed by anyone who witnessed the harrassment, not just the person who was the target. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/19 "2018-03-17T16:39:57Z")
ISTM under the evolving standards this is the sort of thing that has to be presumed improper, no special pleads or circumstances, and burden of proof for refutation bearing on those claiming it wasn’t unwelcomed, every single time; for people to NOT feel they are within their rights in initiating unsolicited contact or forcing others into awkward situations while expecting the object thereof to “be a good sport about it” just because that’s how it goes. Else we revert to the old standard of having it up to someone to make and defend the claim they were hurt. Can’t have it one way for some people and another way for others. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680/20 "2018-03-17T23:48:40Z")
nailed it in one: Unwanted contact It is wrong because of that and the person making the advance deserves censor. It doesn’t sound hard to me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwanted-sexual-contact-with-no-victim-complaint-okay/810680.md?page=2)