# Unwittingly dragged into the middle of a scam. Yipe! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 24, 2008, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505 "2008-12-24T05:03:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/41 "2008-12-26T20:18:11Z")
I think you’ve done exactly the right things and you have nothing to feel guilty about. Poor old guy, though… I wonder if it would be possible to privately speak with the woman he lives with? On the one hand, it seems like a bad idea to butt into a stranger’s life like that, but on the other hand, if he’s delusional (and he is) then it seems like the right thing to do to try to help him as much as you can. Although, he won’t think that you’re helping him now, or maybe ever. It’s a tough situation. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/42 "2008-12-26T22:02:47Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > On the one hand, it seems like a bad idea to butt into a stranger’s life like that, but on the other hand, if he’s delusional (and he is) then it seems like the right thing to do to try to help him as much as you can. Although, he won’t think that you’re helping him now, or maybe ever. It’s a tough situation. I think at this point, she’s done everything she should, and has even gone over and beyond what I would expect from a concerned person. I think only bad things can come from butting in any further, and at this point, it’s up the elderly gentleman in question to learn a hard lesson. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/43 "2008-12-26T23:08:16Z")
I can’t help wondering if it hasn’t sunk in with him that you are _trying to prevent him becoming the victim of a scam_ - as opposed to _trying to prevent him from becoming the perpetrator_. Is it in any way possible that he thinks the latter - that you suspect _him_ of being a fraudster - because he obviously knows he is not, I can’t help wondering if the _real point_ has escaped him. I mean, I’ve read the whole thread and I think it _ought to be_ obvious to him, but I still can’t quite dismiss the notion that maybe due to some combination of his stupidity and perhaps some freakish cross-purposes conversation, he’s missed your warning altogether, on the mistaken assumption that you’re _accusing_ him, rather than warning. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/44 "2008-12-26T23:13:50Z")
You may have a point, **Mangetout** - these scammers try to keep people quiet by implying what they are doing “for” their victims is quasi-legal or illegal. It’s worth mentioning- but **choie** has probably done everything she could here, and I doubt he’ll listen. Actually I don’t think she’ll hear from Fred again anyway, since she is now refusing to give him the rope he’s using to hang himself. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/45 "2008-12-27T00:04:27Z")
> [@Alice\_The\_Goon](#): > > I think you’ve done exactly the right things and you have nothing to feel guilty about. Poor old guy, though… I wonder if it would be possible to privately speak with the woman he lives with? Thanks, **Alice The Goon**. I dunno about speaking to his roommate/partner/whatever she is. While it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s been borrowing from her/ripping her off to pay these creeps, I get the sense they’re close to breaking up anyway (actually he told me point blank when all this started, “I can’t stand her”) and he claims he wants to move out. I don’t want to insert myself into what appears to be a squalid little domestic drama. I’m way beyond my comfort level of confrontation as it is! > [@pulykamell](#): > > I think at this point, she’s done everything she should, and has even gone over and beyond what I would expect from a concerned person. I think only bad things can come from butting in any further, and at this point, it’s up the elderly gentleman in question to learn a hard lesson. I have to agree. Of course, my worst fear is the whole thing resulting in one of those news reports that ends “…before turning the gun on himself!” > [@Mangetout](#): > > I can’t help wondering if it hasn’t sunk in with him that you are _trying to prevent him becoming the victim of a scam_ - as opposed to _trying to prevent him from becoming the perpetrator_. > > Is it in any way possible that he thinks the latter - that you suspect _him_ of being a fraudster - because he obviously knows he is not, I can’t help wondering if the _real point_ has escaped him. Hmm! Interesting possibility, this. I don’t think so, though. I’ve looked over my letter to him and I do think the first and last paragraphs make it quite clear I consider him the victim who’s been misused, and that I was trying to spare his feelings. But anything is possible–I admit my last comment to him earlier today, when he asked to use my computer, does work either way. At that point I was more annoyed by his persistence in dragging me into this crap, so I wasn’t as apologetic as I usually am. In truth, I contemplated the possibility that Fred’s been trying to sucker _me_ in the whole deal – as if he expected me to ask about these so-called millions he’s receiving, wondering “hey how can I get in on this?” But after I’d sent his email for him, the page refreshed to his regular inbox, and I saw the dozens and dozens of prior email subjects relating to this “inheritance” and so on. So if this was a Big Con or pyramid scheme attempt, he would’ve had to create all those emails as backup material. Which would be pretty clever, actually. 🙂 > [@Marley23](#): > > You may have a point, **Mangetout** - these scammers try to keep people quiet by implying what they are doing “for” their victims is quasi-legal or illegal. It’s worth mentioning- but **choie** has probably done everything she could here, and I doubt he’ll listen. Actually I don’t think she’ll hear from Fred again anyway, since she is now refusing to give him the rope he’s using to hang himself. Very good points. I think the (apparent) lies he’s told me – that he’s _met_ this Linda Lopez person, for example – are part of his attempts to cover up what he’s doing; I think he’s aware that there’s something not-quite-legit about the idea of getting something for nothing, and so he’s created a whole cover story and now feels guilty or defensive for his actions. Or perhaps someone else has tried to warn him before and so he tried to change the story so I wouldn’t nag him as well. It’s my understanding that when these scams near ‘endgame’ and the victims start accusing their correspondents of being scammers, the scammers turn things around and warn the victims that they were breaking the law (by trying to participate illegally in a foreign lottery, by taking part in a money laundering scheme, by trying to subvert inheritence laws, whatever) and threaten them with legal reprecussions unless they pay them. What a big mess. I hope he _does_ move out–though at this point I doubt he’ll have money to move with. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/46 "2008-12-27T00:19:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think at this point, she’s done everything she should, and has even gone over and beyond what I would expect from a concerned person. I think only bad things can come from butting in any further, and at this point, it’s up the elderly gentleman in question to learn a hard lesson. Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![maggenpye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecc23a/32.png) [@maggenpye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/maggenpye)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/47 "2008-12-27T08:05:38Z")
Another point to consider is that he may not be willing to admit he’s been tricked. There could be a bit of cognitive dissonance going on with him. The easier it is for you (sweet innocent young thing that you so obviously are) to spot the fraud, the harder he fights to convince \*himself \*that no - he’s not the victim of fraud, he couldn’t be so gullible. It’s better for his ego to play along until \*all \*hope is lost than to believe he’s been so easily played for a fool. You’ve done all you can and kudos for not letting yourself get dragged in any deeper. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/48 "2008-12-27T09:29:03Z")
I think a lot of the confusion in this is that many people wonder (including myself) why this happens when these scams are fairly well known to anyone who reads the news, and every possible red light is flashing to anyone with a room temperature IQ or a smidgen of common sense re these utterly improbable schemes. But the time you have someone who is in the middle of these schemes you kind of have to ask yourself how many self delusional hurdles a person has to climb over to get to that point. It’s like the crazy and/or drunk guy who climbs the zoo fence to play with the polar bears or tigers and gets mangled or killed. You have to _work_ at being stupid or borderline delusional to be in middle of one these things. ---
**Author:** ![Apocalypso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Apocalypso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apocalypso)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/49 "2008-12-27T13:31:11Z")
Some people won’t learn until it happens to them. You’ve done what you could to help him, and he flat out refuses to believe you. There’s nothing else you can do now, he’s going to have to learn the hard way. Sometimes hope is a terrible thing… ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/50 "2009-09-03T16:55:32Z")
Hey there, I’m sorry to bump up my own zombie thread but I was PMed by someone curious as to whether there was any subsequent info about “Fred.” Also, there’s a [thread in GQ wondering if anyone ever falls for this stuff](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=530335). Coincidentally, it was only recently I sort of accidentally discovered that Fred is, alas, still being plucked like a chicken. I thought some of you might be interested to see just how stubborn one poor fool can be. Going back a bit: I think I alluded to the fact that Fred and his live-in girlfriend (my fellow neighbor, whom I know better than I do Fred) were close to breaking up, at least according to Fred. He had told me, “I can’t stand her” and that he wanted to move out. Anyway, shortly after all this transpired back in late December, I ran into him in the hallway and he claimed/boasted that he was moving to the penthouse of our building – presumably his way of telling me that his newfound wealth was imminent and that I was completely wrong about everything. I was all, “that’s nice, good for you” in a noncommital way. Needless to say, this move never seems to have occurred; he’s still living on this floor. Anyway, fast-forward to a few weeks ago. I was throwing out some stuff into our recycling bin when I noticed a sheaf of documents, stapled together, sitting on top of the pile. It looked ‘official’ and important, not like regular recycling, so I glanced at it wondering if someone had accidentally dropped it in. Immediately I recognized Fred’s name, and though I know I shouldn’t have kept reading, I couldn’t help it. Curiosity got the better of me, what can I say? It was a narrative, a current one according to the date, written to one of the “barristers” I remembered from the whole kafuffle back in December, but now including more details and confirming that Fred was asking this attorney to go to JFK airport because Fred had been told that there were two suitcases filled with part of his “inheritance” – $500,000 – that were being stowed in a storage locker. Naturally. Because legit attorneys are always leaving half a million dollar inheritances in two suitcases. :rolleyes: Oh, and Fred mentioned that he’d paid a total of $30,000 to various people and that he was sending another $2K to the attorney who was supposedly going to pick up the suitcases and meet him, for “legal fees” related to the drop-off. There was a lot more but I didn’t feel right leafing through the whole thing. I saw other copies of the same document beneath it in the recycling bin, so I guess these were just drafts. (I might add that not only is Fred foolish for doing all this, but why in God’s name did he leave such a document unshredded or even untorn-up in a recycling bin?!) Again I was torn about what I should do, but since I knew I was probably wrong for reading even as much as I did, I just left the document there and added my own recyclables to the bin. So that’s the latest. Fred is STILL getting bled by these bloodsuckers, and he’s almost willfully ignoring every obvious sign that he’s headed not to the penthouse, but to the poorhouse. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/51 "2009-09-03T17:12:55Z")
Can you introduce me to Fred? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/52 "2009-09-03T17:37:38Z")
Why not send the info to your state’s Attorney General? I feel so bad for this poor slob. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/53 "2009-09-03T18:22:20Z")
Sssshhh! The line for this guy starts behind me. I have timshares AND bridges to sell. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/54 "2009-09-03T19:11:50Z")
You need to call your local FBI office right away and tell them what you know. You have information about a crime that is ongoing, and you need to report it. That’s what responsible citizens do, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![velvetjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5f9b8f/32.png) [@velvetjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velvetjones)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/55 "2009-09-03T20:39:18Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > You need to call your local FBI office right away and tell them what you know. You have information about a crime that is ongoing, and you need to report it. That’s what responsible citizens do, IMHO. I agree. There has to be some agency to whom you can report this. I know you feel bad that he’s being taken to the cleaners. Maybe the FBI or the Police can talk some sense into the guy. ---
**Author:** ![lolagranola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ea5d25/32.png) [@lolagranola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lolagranola)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/56 "2009-09-03T23:09:35Z")
Thanks for the update. Wow. Poor, deluded (broke) guy. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/57 "2009-09-04T19:51:27Z")
So he’s still in the apartment leeching off the girlfriend he can’t stand? She’s the one I feel sorry for at this point. In retrospect, it’s obvious that Fred’s computer was never broken - he just didn’t want his meal ticket to find out about his “real” girlfriend and he’s coming millions. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/58 "2009-09-04T20:36:24Z")
Is it possible that the reason those papers were dumped is because the scam has run its course and Freddy knows he’s a chump? ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/59 "2009-09-04T21:10:06Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > So he’s still in the apartment leeching off the girlfriend he can’t stand? She’s the one I feel sorry for at this point. In retrospect, it’s obvious that Fred’s computer was never broken - he just didn’t want his meal ticket to find out about his “real” girlfriend and he’s coming millions. Normally I would feel nothing by sympathy for someone like old Fred, but he seems like a greedy old jackass who wont listen to anyone trying to help him… Calling the FBI might not be a bad idea, but then again staying out of the whole mess may be for the best—dont want Fred attacking you for keeping him from his certain riches. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505/60 "2009-09-04T22:06:00Z")
Thanks guys. It’s weird that no one (I don’t think) recommended that I call the FBI back in December, but now I get three folks making the suggestion, the first implying that I’m a bad citizen for not having done so. I don’t know. I don’t have ANY evidence to present whatsoever, and the crime is at least three or four weeks old (back when I saw the papers in the recycling bin) and the victim himself denies that he’s a victim. Plus, yeah, I have to live on the same floor with this creepy guy and his semi-creepy live-in girlfriend. I can just imagine the knocks on my door if the FBI came calling on him. OTOH, I do pride myself in being helpful and if I could make a difference, I would want to. So I’m again torn. Maybe I should’ve saved those papers, but it’s not my business to do so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwittingly-dragged-into-the-middle-of-a-scam-yipe/478505.md?page=4)