# Unwritten rules of baseball that you don't get **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 30, 2018, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795 "2018-07-30T05:56:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/21 "2018-07-30T14:46:45Z")
There are too many unwritten rules surrounding bunting. The common one is you shouldn’t bunt to break up a no-hitter. The other common one is you shouldn’t bunt with a big lead. But in regards to breaking up a no-hitter, what if it’s a close game? What if you’re only down one or two runs? Shouldn’t you be trying anything you can to get on base and win the game? As for bunting with a big lead - first, what defines “big” lead? Five runs? Six runs? 10 runs? And what if it’s still early in the game, say, the fourth inning or earlier? Here are some examples: [Jed Lowrie bunts when his team is up 7-0, but it’s still only the fourth inning. He gets confronted by Astros’ Jose Altuve and manager Bo Porter.](https://www.mlb.com/video/astros-confront-lowrie/c-32191009) [Toronto’s Colby Rasmus bunts and angers pitcher Colby Lewis. Toronto was only leading 2-0 at the time and it was just the 5th inning.](https://www.mlb.com/video/lewis-appears-upset-at-bunt/c-34628215) This one kind of baffles me. It wasn’t breaking up a no-hit bid, and it was in the middle of a close game. Was it because he was bunting with two outs? Even so, why would it upset the pitcher so much? Here’s one that has a little bit of everything - From [SI.com](https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/04/02/twins-orioles-chance-sisco-bunt-jose-berrios): > [@](#): > > To set the scene: Minnesota was on top of Baltimore, 7–0, in the ninth inning, with young ace Jose Berrios working on a one-hit shutout. With one out and nobody on, Sisco—who hits lefthanded and was facing a defensive shift—dropped a bunt that rolled down the third-base line, toward the deserted left side of the infield, for a single. Sisco’s hit didn’t end up changing anything materially: While the next two batters reached to load the bases, the O’s couldn’t cash anyone in, and Berrios still earned his shutout, albeit having had to throw a few more pitches than he would’ve had Sisco made an out. But despite that, Twins players were grumpy as all hell about the nerve of a player trying to reach base in a game that was still going. Ok, so Berrios was going for the shut out, and the Orioles were behind 0-7 in the ninth, but the batter saw a defensive shift and decided to bunt around it. He bunted successfully and beat the shift. This really irked the Twins. Was he supposed to just flail away at the plate and hit into the shift? And wouldn’t the other side of it be … why were the Twins playing a defensive shift with a 7-0 lead in the ninth? Speaking of unwritten rules. Pot, meet kettle. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/22 "2018-07-30T14:55:40Z")
The on deck circle has a lot of rules, be they written or otherwise, that I don’t really get. As Adrian Beltre found out, the on deck batter is supposed to be inside the on deck circle until he’s up to bat. Hitters love to get as close to home plate as possible to get the most realistic view of the pitcher. Umpires usually don’t pay close attention, except of course to Beltre. The unwritten part is that if a batter gets too close while on deck, or heaven forbid if he goes to other side of the plate while he’s on deck, the first pitch he sees may be close to his earhole. I think on deck batters should be allowed to stand wherever they want. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/23 "2018-07-30T15:11:29Z")
Eh, I can see the reason for it. Having him wander about can be distracting to the pitcher who should be concentrating on what he’s doing. Plus, players get up to all sorts of shenanigans when left to their own devices. Look up why there’s a third base coaches box sometime. Another weird one, more superstition than anything else, is not stepping on the foul line. That one’s so ingrained I once saw Mitch Webster make a ballet-like pirouette to avoid it when he was coming down from a leap to catch a ball. He was hyper-aware that the foul line was there and he was determined not to touch it. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/24 "2018-07-30T15:29:54Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I have trouble understanding why you can pitch around a batter if first base is open, but not if there’s a runner on first. I hear play-by-play announcers commenting that stealing second is bad when a good hitter is up, because the opposing team can now walk him. There’s no reason why they couldn’t have done so while first base was occupied. If you pitch around someone while first base is occupied, you’re pushing a runner into scoring position. If first base is open, pitching around someone can avoid a dangerous batter and set up a double-play. There’s lotsa factors, but those are big ones. > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > The unwritten part is that if a batter gets too close while on deck, or heaven forbid if he goes to other side of the plate while he’s on deck, the first pitch he sees may be close to his earhole. I think on deck batters should be allowed to stand wherever they want. The pitcher doesn’t want the on-deck batter timing his pitches, or getting a good read on his form that day, or whatever - he wants to keep the batter off-balance when they’re facing each other. So if the on-deck batter is getting too good a look when he’s not the one at bat, he’s kinda ‘cheating’ off the current match-up. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/25 "2018-07-30T15:42:18Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > However, walking a man with a runner on second absolutely IS less damaging than walking a man with a runner on first. Having a runner on second is absolutely worse than having a runner on first. Going from a runner on first to runners on first and second is a much worse step than going from a runner on second to runner on first and second. And partly this is because of how easy it is to get force-outs and double plays. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/26 "2018-07-30T17:06:07Z")
One that bugs me is the “courtesy strike” called when a batter is down 3-0 in the count… although I think we may be seeing a bit less of that lately. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/27 "2018-07-30T17:11:25Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > But in regards to breaking up a no-hitter, what if it’s a close game? What if you’re only down one or two runs? Shouldn’t you be trying anything you can to get on base and win the game? > > As for bunting with a big lead - first, what defines “big” lead? Five runs? Six runs? 10 runs? And what if it’s still early in the game, say, the fourth inning or earlier? A famous example was when Ben Davis bunted and broke up Curt Schilling’s no hit bid in the eighth inning of a 2-0 game. The thing was, it was a 2-0 game; it’s Davis’s job to try to win ballgames, but get a no hitter for some other team’s pitcher. Davis was being paid good money to win ballgames, and he did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/28 "2018-07-30T17:21:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Jonathan Chance** : > > I think you’re viewing this backwards, Chronos. We’re discussing the offensive team taking risks that can lead to making outs, not the actions of the team on the field. > > So the RUNNER shouldn’t make the out at third. Not the third baseman. OK, I was viewing it the other way (since it’s the defense which is trying for outs). But viewing it as the offense team, I’d think that the “rules” would be “Don’t get the first out at second base. Don’t get the last out at first base. Don’t get the second out at home. In fact, just don’t get any outs at all”. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/29 "2018-07-30T17:31:35Z")
It’s a matter of risk analysis. Baseball guys not, in general (local exceptions occur. Study Davey Johnson), being math guys they sum up this statement: “In general, the added risk of ending an inning exceeds the potential payoff. Staying on second instead of aggressively heading for third is a better option for run scoring.” with “Don’t make the third out at third.” ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/30 "2018-07-30T17:32:35Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > The pitcher doesn’t want the on-deck batter timing his pitches, or getting a good read on his form that day, or whatever - he wants to keep the batter off-balance when they’re facing each other. So if the on-deck batter is getting too good a look when he’s not the one at bat, he’s kinda ‘cheating’ off the current match-up. I know that, but I don’t think it gives the batter any great advantage. As a pitcher I never paid any bit of attention to where the on deck guy was standing. However, my best friend played shortstop in almost every league I did and he was very vigilant about where that guy was and would let me know “can’t let him stand there.” I never cared, but it was important to others, so I’d have to brush that guy back. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/31 "2018-07-30T18:30:25Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > If you pitch around someone while first base is occupied, you’re pushing a runner into scoring position. If first base is open, pitching around someone can avoid a dangerous batter and set up a double-play. The situation I was describing (evidently, not clearly enough) was when a runner is criticized for stealing second with a good hitter up, because that “leaves first base open” and allows the other team to “pitch around” and walk the hitter. Regardless of whether you walk that hitter semi-intentionally with a man on second and first base open or if you do it with a man on first, the outcome is men on first and second. > [@Hi](#): > > Ok, so Berrios was going for the shut out, and the Orioles were behind 0-7 in the ninth, but the batter saw a defensive shift and decided to bunt around it. He bunted successfully and beat the shift. This really irked the Twins. I’d bunt or do anything else deliberately to foil a shift if it was costing me hits. Eventually the other team would learn it was a bad idea. I was reading a book about sports happenings in 1941 which partially focused on baseball (DiMaggio’s hit streak and Ted Williams hitting .406). This apparently was the first time an opposing team (the Jimmy Dykes-managed White Sox) put on the “Williams Shift”, and loaded the right side of the infield. Williams happily hit to left field including a double and bunt single and the shift was abandoned - until the 1946 World Series when the Cards used it against him, Williams was too stubborn to take what he was given and refused to hit to the opposite field. > **[Ted Williams figured out the shift long before the backlash](https://nypost.com/2015/07/18/ted-williams-figured-out-the-shift-long-before-the-backlash/)** > > Lou Boudreau is the man who generally gets credit for inventing that scourge of baseball aesthetics, the infield shift. Boudreau’s Indians and Ted Williams’ Red Sox were great rivals in the postwar… ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/32 "2018-07-30T18:50:00Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The situation I was describing (evidently, not clearly enough) was when a runner is criticized for stealing second with a good hitter up, because that “leaves first base open” and allows the other team to “pitch around” and walk the hitter. Regardless of whether you walk that hitter semi-intentionally with a man on second and first base open or if you do it with a man on first, the outcome is men on first and second. You’re criticized because if you try to steal second, and get tagged out, then the hitter is walked, not only was the steal unnecessary (you’d have been on 2nd anyway) but you cost your team an out in the process. Sure, if you steal second and the batter gets a hit you’re in a better position to make it to third or run home but I think from a risk/reward perspective it’s considered more rational to stay put. And stealing second might be seen as showing off also, and padding your stats in base stealing, at the potential expense of the rest of the team. Also, if the guy at the plate is a real slugger and has a good chance at a home run, again stealing second gets you nothing. Getting tagged out costs an out and also a run since it would become a solo homer instead of two runs. Just overall it’s probably not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/33 "2018-07-30T18:52:44Z")
It depends on who the batters are, too. It makes sense to walk a scary hitter, whether the runner is on first or second, if there’s a much easier out behind him (Barry Bonds sometimes drew intentional walks with the bases _loaded_). But if you’re in the middle of Murderers’ Row, go at 'em and take your chances. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/34 "2018-07-30T20:14:14Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > Here’s two that I have heard over and over again and no matter how hard I try to figure it out, don’t know why. And this is from a guy that THINKS he knows a little about baseball! > > 1. You don’t use your closer on road games > > 2. You don’t make the . . . Im trying to get this straight . . . .the first or third out of the inning on third base? > > Any others that don’t make sense? And can the baseball experts here clarify? These are not “unwritten rules”. These are “accepted strategies”. Unwritten rules are the things that, if you do, your opponents get mad at you over. Accepted strategies are things that, if you break, you’d better win the Series because otherwise, your fans will get mad at you over. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/35 "2018-07-30T21:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Jackmannii** : > > I was reading a book about sports happenings in 1941 which partially focused on baseball (DiMaggio’s hit streak and Ted Williams hitting .406). This apparently was the first time an opposing team (the Jimmy Dykes-managed White Sox) put on the “Williams Shift”, and loaded the right side of the infield. Williams happily hit to left field including a double and bunt single and the shift was abandoned - until the 1946 World Series when the Cards used it against him, Williams was too stubborn to take what he was given and refused to hit to the opposite field. Just how much control do batters have over where they hit it? I’d have to think it’s not very much, given that they don’t even hit it at all two thirds of the time. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/36 "2018-07-30T21:20:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Just how much control do batters have over where they hit it? I’d have to think it’s not very much, given that they don’t even hit it at all two thirds of the time. Ichiro was [pretty good](https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/look-ichiros-spray-chart-with-all-3000-of-his-mlb-hits-tells-a-wonderful-story/) at it. (about halfway down) > [@](#): > > For instance, since 2002 – the back end of batted-ball data on FanGraphs – Ichiro has hit 31.3 percent of his batted balls to the pull side, 35.3 percent up the middle, and 33.4 percent to the opposite side. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/37 "2018-07-30T21:23:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Just how much control do batters have over where they hit it? I’d have to think it’s not very much, given that they don’t even hit it at all two thirds of the time. We had [a thread here](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=858888) two weeks ago, about the defensive shift, and why more hitters don’t try to hit away from it. Consensus: for the sort of player whose batting habits cause a defense to put on a shift, he’s likely hit it to one field much of his career, and “hit it the other way” is probably not as simple as it sounds. Also, Ted Williams (mentioned in **Jackmannii** ’s post) and Ichiro (mentioned by r **unning coach** ) were particularly gifted hitters, with amazing bat control, even by MLB standards. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/38 "2018-07-31T00:53:59Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Also, if the guy at the plate is a real slugger and has a good chance at a home run, again stealing second gets you nothing. Getting tagged out costs an out and also a run since it would become a solo homer instead of two runs. I would also expect a baserunner who’s quick enough to steal second would also stand a fair chance of scoring from first on a double, making the steal even less worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![ScarletNinny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@ScarletNinny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ScarletNinny)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2018, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795/39 "2018-07-31T04:52:17Z")
> [@Hi\_Neighbor](#): > > Ok, so Berrios was going for the shut out, and the Orioles were behind 0-7 in the ninth, but the batter saw a defensive shift and decided to bunt around it. He bunted successfully and beat the shift. This really irked the Twins. Was he supposed to just flail away at the plate and hit into the shift? And wouldn’t the other side of it be … why were the Twins playing a defensive shift with a 7-0 lead in the ninth? Speaking of unwritten rules. Pot, meet kettle. Correct. The Twins looked foolish here because they were shifting. In the parlance of middle school, they started it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/unwritten-rules-of-baseball-that-you-dont-get/818795.md?page=1)