# Upd: Kim Potter trial resolved: guilty of manslaughter 1&2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384 "2021-12-20T21:46:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/81 "2021-12-23T22:24:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > suspected criminal? Let’s not mince words. Suspected criminal = average citizen. My thing with the police is not how many people they kill, or who, or from what part of town. It is that in cases where they are clearly in the wrong, where I might get murder 1 and possibly a botched injection, they remain protected, paid, and their career remains intact. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/82 "2021-12-23T22:37:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > And a huge majority of police involved shootings are found to be legally justified yet you still claim there is a problem with police shootings > > Absolutely I do. The “legal justification” standard does not remotely imply that deescalation could not have led to a resolution without harm to either the LEO _or_ the suspect. Alternative tactics and preclusion are always brought up in deadly force situations and most of the time rejected. In other words, all the district attorneys and grand juries in those cases when presented with everything involved are wrong and you are right. Got it! ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/83 "2021-12-23T22:40:35Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Sentence her to five years in confinement suspended provided she complete five years of probation. I agree. Temper justice with mercy. And I would agree that the probation be strict. No going on talk shows, lecture circuits, news shows, no books, no interviews, no articles, no letters to the editor from her, nothing. Maybe some electronic monitoring. But this is not a case where the convict needs to be hammered. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/84 "2021-12-23T22:46:30Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > suspected criminal? > > Let’s not mince words. Suspected criminal = average citizen. Yup. Way too many cases where innocent people, or crazy people, end up dead because the police officer thought a cell phone was a gun or something. One of those lives is worth the life of one police officer, to the extent you can ever compare lives. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/85 "2021-12-23T22:48:21Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > But this is not a case where the convict needs to be hammered. So long as she’s never allowed to touch a gun again. I think she should serve whatever is typical for manslaughter. Every case of manslaughter is a mistake. She seems averagely guilty for having committed manslaughter, imo. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/86 "2021-12-23T23:02:15Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@pkbites](#): > > > > But this is not a case where the convict needs to be hammered. > > So long as she’s never allowed to touch a gun again. Unless she gets a pardon or her full civil rights restored (both very rare in a case like this) that’s exactly what a felony conviction does. Or at least it’s supposed to. As discussed in other threads felons in possession of firearms are routinely treated with kids Gloves. ETA: Heh. My auto correct had it as kiss Glocks. How odd. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/87 "2021-12-23T23:28:57Z")
Well, I’m disappointed. Man 1 seems excessive. Man 2 is more appropriate. Hopefully there’s a chance of a successful appeal. I can’t see how society benefits by putting Potter in prison for twenty or more years. There’s no chance she would ever handle a gun again. Felons can’t own or even be around guns. It sends a terrible message to our police. Make a mistake under high stress and go to prison for a significant portion of your life. I wouldn’t work any job with a legal sword dangling over my head. Hell no. There’s too many other jobs right now. Employers are begging people to return to work. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/88 "2021-12-23T23:36:49Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I sense that she is genuinely remorseful for her crime. Oh, me too. I 100% believe she didn’t mean to kill him and that she feels crushing guilt over it. But the man is dead regardless, so the charges are appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/89 "2021-12-23T23:40:01Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Oh, me too. I 100% believe she didn’t mean to kill him and that she feels crushing guilt over it. I agree - and the discussion upthread trying to parse whether she feels more sorry for _herself_ or more sorry for her _victim_ is pointless. For a non-psychopath under these circumstances, I think it’s impossible to untangle the two. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I can’t see how society benefits by putting Potter in prison for twenty or more years… > > It sends a terrible message to our police. I don’t think twenty years is appropriate, but I think a long prison term sends exactly the right message to our police. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/90 "2021-12-23T23:41:13Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Obviously 100% of the 48 police deaths were unjustified, Why obviously? If a bystander had tackled Derek Chauvin in an attempt to save George Floyd’s life, causing Chauvin to hit his head on the pavement and die, might it be judged justified? ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/91 "2021-12-23T23:47:06Z")
Okay, but I think that’s a very rare scenario. I’m much more inclined to question whether 98-99% of shootings _by_ police are really justified. This is quite old, but I think it raises all the important questions: > **[Opinion | Why it’s impossible to calculate the percentage of police shootings...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/07/14/why-its-impossible-to-calculate-the-percentage-of-police-shootings-that-are-legitimate/)** > > The primary source of data on police shootings will necessarily come from the officers doing the shooting. And that's a huge problem. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/92 "2021-12-23T23:53:00Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Alternative tactics and preclusion are always brought up in deadly force situations and most of the time rejected. So you agree that there’s a problem there? > [@aceplace57](#): > > It sends a terrible message to our police. Make a mistake under high stress and go to prison for a significant portion of your life. That’s the sword that dangles over most peoples’ heads. Most of us, if we make a mistake that results in someone’s death, will in fact have our lives ruined. To which we respond by trying really hard to not make that kind of mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/93 "2021-12-23T23:56:46Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > I guess I’m not sure why that’s relevant, if everyone (apparently including Potter) agrees that a taser was the appropriate level of force here. It’s relevance is that in this case the police are dealing with a person who has a warrant for his arrest who is acting in an uncontrolled/dangerous manner. Daunte Wright ramped up the situation to split-second decisions with his behavior. People have a general expectation that professionals (regardless of the field) are superhuman beings when they’re really just people. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/94 "2021-12-24T00:07:16Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > It’s relevance is that in this case the police are dealing with a person who has a warrant for his arrest who is acting in an uncontrolled/dangerous manner. Daunte Wright ramped up the situation to split-second decisions with his behavior. Simply ignoring my prior rebuttal does not make it go away. For this to be relevant, it would need to be true that lethal force was a possible justified option, and that Potter was _deliberating between_ gun and taser, and that this contributed to her mistake. _Potter herself_ does not claim this. _Potter herself_ took into account Wright’s record and Wright’s proximate actions that you describe, and she determined that the taser was appropriate. So far as I’m aware, neither she nor her defense team has ever claimed that she contemplated deliberate use of lethal force. Yes, Wright created a tense situation where a _taser_ was justified. When would it ever be otherwise? A taser is never required in a _calm_ situation. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/95 "2021-12-24T00:16:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well that has been the trend in training especially when applied to a moving vehicle. Back off it it becomes a reckless high speed chase. In this case you have police standing around and the car is going to be viewed as a weapon. It seems like there could be more stringent guidelines about when police are authorized to chase down someone like that. I don’t buy the reasoning that the car is a “deadly weapon” in the hands of someone who’s just trying to flee the scene, and has no cause to drive like a maniac unless pursued. Maybe one simple fix would be for police to carry a pair of spiked chocks, elbow-shaped, and fit them under the front and rear side of a wheel when a traffic stop is initiated. If the suspect flees, the tire is destroyed and the wheel is jammed, so the car is no longer a high-speed flight risk. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/96 "2021-12-24T00:27:46Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And yet, this country manages to have an average of 1000 people a year killed by cops, and obviously more non-fatal shootings. Someone is shooting these people. This is a very big country. Unlikely events are bound to happen to **somebody**. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/97 "2021-12-24T00:32:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It sends a terrible message to our police. Make a mistake under high stress and go to prison for a significant portion of your life. No, the message is you can’t wrongfully kill someone and get out of it with an “oopsie.” History shows that warnings have no effect on them, jail is the only language they understand. So this is a perfectly good message. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I wouldn’t work any job with a legal sword dangling over my head. Hell no. This actually describes many jobs. Not just police. The military works under more stringent rules of engagement than police, and they manage just fine. At jobs I’ve had in the past, I could have gone to jail for making an error on certain reports or sending an ill-advised email. It didn’t make me a nervous wreck, it just made me more judicious and thorough. If a cop wielding deadly force can’t be bothered to cultivate that same attitude, I’d love to see them downgrade to a job with less responsibility. Unfortunately, outside of policing, there are very few jobs that afford so much power with so little responsibility. So most bad cops are going to keep being bad cops until they go to jail. That’s why we can never stop holding them accountable or listening to their excuses about how it’s so hard not to kill citizens. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/98 "2021-12-24T01:03:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > People have a general expectation that professionals (regardless of the field) are superhuman beings when they’re really just people. I have zero problems expecting that professionals will be professionals. As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, police are trained and trained over and over for situations like this. Their training leads me to hold them to a higher standard than the average armed citizen. I would also expect a medical doctor to be better at doing doctor things than the average first aid kit toting citizen. If you are claiming to be an expert, I fully expect expert performance in your field. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/99 "2021-12-24T01:27:40Z")
[Taking off on what @JaneDoe42 said, and trying to self-edit, here] It is notoriously difficult to get an attorney to take a legitimate medical malpractice case: > **[Patient Harm: When An Attorney Won’t Take Your Case](https://www.propublica.org/article/patient-harm-when-an-attorney-wont-take-your-case)** > > Studies show that nine of 10 patients seeking a medical malpractice attorney won’t find one —  women, children and the elderly in particular. > More than 450 attorneys were surveyed for the Emory study, “[**Uncovering the Silent Victims of the American Medical Liability System**](https://www.propublica.org/documents/item/698248-emory-med-mal-study#document/p35/a137431),” which found that three out of four medical malpractice attorneys reject [**more than 90 percent of the cases they screen**](https://www.propublica.org/documents/item/698248-emory-med-mal-study.html#document/p35/a137431). The study found: > - About [**95 percent of patients who are harmed**](https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/698248-emory-med-mal-study#document/p1/a103260) will find it extremely difficult to get representation. > - Almost no attorney will take a case, even when the chance of winning is 95 percent, if the [**damages are less than $50,000**](https://www.propublica.org/documents/item/698248-emory-med-mal-study#document/p36/a137731). > - More than half refuse any case, no matter the likelihood of winning, [**if the damages are less than $250,000**](https://www.propublica.org/documents/item/698248-emory-med-mal-study#document/p37/a137730). States like California long ago enacted **[legislation](https://www.caoc.org/?pg=issmicra)** that limited medical malpractice liability. Passed in 1975, it limited non-economic damages (eg, pain and suffering) to $250,000 and it was **not** indexed for inflation. Meaning: $250,000 in 1975 would have been over $1.3M in 2021, but the $250k cap is still current. At the same time, there is a never-ending push by the American Medical Association to rein in medical malpractice cases ([**SOURCE - 33p PDF**](https://www.ama-assn.org/system/files/2020-05/mlr-now.pdf)). Accountability is checks and balances. The AMA doesn’t want accountability. Not many systems or industries do. But the public needs to _demand_ it from government employees, our society, large systems, and powerful institutions. In so many ways, it really is about the powerful and the powerless. “**[The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/11/15/arc-of-universe/)**.” This is just what ‘bending’ looks like. And it isn’t always painless. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2021, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/100 "2021-12-24T01:50:25Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Accountability is checks and balances. The AMA doesn’t want accountability. Not many systems or industries do. But the public needs to _demand_ it from government employees, our society, large systems, and powerful institutions. +1 When you have the foxes judging what other foxes do to chickens, nothing will change. They can’t demand to be paid and treated as professionals and then act with careless disregard for other people’s rights and lives. I am not going to get started about RICO laws, too much of a hijack… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384.md?page=6)