# Upd: Kim Potter trial resolved: guilty of manslaughter 1&2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 20, 2021, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384 "2021-12-20T21:46:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/161 "2021-12-26T00:34:39Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > But this is not what I said. You aren’t reading in good faith. I said he was responsible for creating a situation that presented a danger to the police around him. I know you said that. But was that worthy of death? If not, then to say Wright was 100% responsible for the situation is misleading and implies that his death is completely his fault. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/162 "2021-12-26T00:39:17Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > So what happens to an officer who says “screw that” and pulls over a white driver with tags expired beyond 6 months. The driver turns out to have a warrant for a serious felony and also just assaulted someone. A dangerous person taken off the street. > > Does the officer get disciplined, demoted, or even fired? No. And in many cases wont be disciplined, demoted, or even fired if he pulls over a black driver and shoots him in the face because: He was acting aggressive (not mentioning I was yelling in his face and escalating the situation) and I thought I saw a gun (which was a Pepsi bottle) and my body cam was turned off (how convenient). ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/163 "2021-12-26T00:48:56Z")
Cite? As I have mentioned before, cops sink or swim by the SOP of the agency they work for. Many of officers have done things completely legal and have ended up disciplined or fired because it still violated department policy. The policy of not enforcing laws because there might be some bias problem is not the answer to the alleged problem. It’s just throwing out the baby with the bath water. What happens if the Minnesota AG says “the hell you’re not enforcing the law”. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/164 "2021-12-26T00:51:37Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Cite? The omnibus thread we have on this The threads relating to individual cases. The Young Turks and other commentators News. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/165 "2021-12-26T01:42:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Shroff and his colleagues also measured the disparity in stop rates before and after sunset. They found that black drivers made up a smaller share of those stopped at night, when it’s more difficult to discern the race of a driver, which suggests that racial bias may influence stop decisions. For example, in Texas, about 25 percent of drivers stopped right before sunset were black, compared to about 20 percent just after dusk. There’s more you can’t see in the car at night that might influence a stop other than the skin color of the people in the car. There also is the burnt out headlight nighttime factor. Maybe, on average, Black drivers are more careful with bulbs being in working order, and less careful with something else. I guess it depends on how much evidence you require before slinging around claims of bigotry. I admit that I think it should be a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/166 "2021-12-26T01:56:49Z")
There are hundreds of different pieces of evidence that suggest that police are biased against black people. For any single one of those pieces of evidence, you can come up with some other explanation. But the question becomes, is the answer more likely to be a hundred different explanations, or one explanation? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/167 "2021-12-26T02:00:34Z")
I don’t disagree with you at all. But as I pointed out in **[post #157](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/157)**, there was a **whole lot** of data in this dataset. While complex questions imply a raft of potential confounding variables, large sample size is often used in an effort to reduce their impact. Meaning: there’s something to this data – smoke, if not fire. To me, a statistical result like the one reached by the Stanford Open Policing Project is the _start_ of the journey, not the end. But – to cite **just one example** – after the DOJ investigated the Police Department in Ferguson, MO, after the killing of Michael Brown, their findings were alarming and stark: [**Investigation of the Ferguson Police Department – BIG-ASS PDF**](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf) Last I knew, the **[DOJ was also going to investigate Minneapolis PD](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/attorney-general-merrick-b-garland-announces-investigation-city-minneapolis-minnesota-and)**, too, after the George Floyd killing. As I’ve said elsewhere, nobody should extrapolate from Ferguson PD to the rest of the nation, but if I were king, I’d start proactively doing the same kind of DOJ evaluation of a couple of dozen other Police Departments. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/168 "2021-12-26T02:45:35Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I’m ‘countering’ @Magiver 's recurrent narrative about why this was so overwhelmingly Wright’s fault. Resisting arrest isn’t overwhelmingly his fault, it’s ENTIRELY his fault. It’s not a minor issue. Trying to drive away is not a minor issue. This does not mean the shooting is his fault. It means his actions are contributory to it. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/169 "2021-12-26T16:08:49Z")
Maybe you and I can put this piece of the discussion to rest by me saying that I haven’t seen anybody exonerating this kid and/or holding him out as totally without blame. Including me. A lot of elements led up to his death and each of them merits scrutiny. What I’ve said, and will probably not bother saying again, is that I’m in favor of structural societal changes that – if the rest of the developed world is any guide – may reduce crime and violence. Upstream solutions. But meanwhile, it’s easier to address the person employed by the State, trained, experienced, equipped, supported, etc. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/170 "2021-12-26T16:33:53Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There’s no chance she would ever handle a gun again. Felons can’t own or even be around guns How is that? Felons are not _allowed_ to have guns. It’s not as if there is some magical barrier that prevents them from doing so. If she has any desire for a gun, she can get one. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/171 "2021-12-26T16:44:36Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Bad policing has consequences: Innocent people die. > Bad doctoring has similar consequences: People die who shouldn’t have. > Bad lawyering has consequences: Innocent people in jail, even on death row, even executed. > Bad teaching has consequences: Republicans. One major difference is that, for the most part, people can choose their own doctor, lawyer, or teacher. Almost no one chooses their police officer. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/172 "2021-12-26T16:54:10Z")
We can table it and I’m fully supportive of scrutiny of the state. I think it’s a given that we scrutinize government employed people and training. Better training might improve the outcome but I would postulate that it will always be a percentage of the events based on the behavior of those under arrest. Restated, we can reduce fatal outcomes by a percentage with training. But that percentage will likely be smaller than what would occur if the combative behavior is reduced. Going forward I see body cams as one of the best tools to use in the process of identifying the problem. They will create ready-made training material, identify bad cops, human error, and incriminate those who resist arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/173 "2021-12-26T17:11:56Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > One major difference is that, for the most part, people can choose their own doctor, lawyer, or teacher. Almost no one chooses their police officer. Yes, we can choose a doctor but the comparison differs in one major component. Doctors aren’t often attacked by their patients. Back before sedatives existed they tied their patients down for surgery. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/174 "2021-12-26T18:22:48Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@aceplace57](#): > > > > There’s no chance she would ever handle a gun again. Felons can’t own or even be around guns > > How is that? Felons are not _allowed_ to have guns. It’s not as if there is some magical barrier that prevents them from doing so. > > If she has any desire for a gun, she can get one. You’re right. And we’ve discussed in other threads the milquetoast way felons found in possession of a firearm are treated. But other than the horrible mistake she made I don’t see Potter having a criminal mind and I don’t see any reason to fear she’s going to do anything to further her criminal record. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/175 "2021-12-26T22:07:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, we can choose a doctor but the comparison differs in one major component. Doctors aren’t often attacked by their patients. And police officers aren’t often attacked by citizens, either. If it came to hard numbers, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that doctors are attacked more often than police officers. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2021, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/176 "2021-12-26T23:11:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > If it came to hard numbers, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that doctors are attacked more often than police officers. After doing a [search](https://advisorsmith.com/data/most-dangerous-jobs/) I don’t see Doctors listed in the 25 most dangerous jobs. But I see police officers listed and the most likely cause of death is from violence. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/177 "2021-12-27T00:04:23Z")
I found a [more detailed breakdown](https://nleomf.org/memorial/facts-figures/officer-fatality-data/causes-of-law-enforcement-deaths/) of police deaths. All of the categories that could be considered “violence” total to 558, less than a third of the total 1762 officers killed in a decade. And they don’t show suicide as a category, so presumably suicides are categorized by the method used, presumably mostly “Shot”. Vehicle accidents, meanwhile, total 517, “Job Related Illness”, whatever that is for cops, is 456, and Covid alone is 182, more than 10% of police deaths in the past decade (in 2020, it was more than all other causes combined). So, all told, violence isn’t all that common a cause of death among police officers, especially if you exclude suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/178 "2021-12-27T00:08:44Z")
And that Vox article I linked to mentioned that many police officers decline to wear seatbelts, because they want to be able to quickly exit the car if the situation requires it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/179 "2021-12-27T18:26:42Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So, all told, violence isn’t all that common a cause of death among police officers, those are just the officers KILLED by violence. Not those who were attacked. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384/180 "2021-12-27T18:42:28Z")
And what stats there are are only kept on people KILLED by police. Not those brutalized, tortured, raped, or denigrated by them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upd-kim-potter-trial-resolved-guilty-of-manslaughter-1-2/956384.md?page=10)