# UPDATE: Cop shoots, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 3, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561 "2007-01-03T17:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/1 "2007-01-03T17:36:55Z")
This is an update to this thread: [Cop shoots, kills teen after he skips out on check at IHOP](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=360889) This happened back in February 2006. In a nutshell, some kids skipped out on their check at an IHOP, and as they were driving away, an off-duty police officer moonlighting as a security guard shot at the car, killing Aaron Brown, 19, because the cop felt the driver of the car was trying to hit him. The thread went on for like 15 pages, so I am starting a new thread to update. From today’s Washington Post ([full article here,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/02/AR2007010200975.html)): > [@](#): > > **Officer Who Killed Teen At IHOP Is Suspended** > > By Tom Jackman > Washington Post Staff Writer > Wednesday, January 3, 2007; Page B01 > > Alexandria police officials said yesterday that they have suspended an off-duty officer who shot and killed a teenager outside a pancake house in February and that they are revising their policies on shooting at, and stepping in front of, moving vehicles. > … > Police Chief David P. Baker met with Aaron Brown’s [the victim] family yesterday, then announced that, although he supported the chief prosecutor’s decision in June that the officer’s actions were reasonable and that he would not be criminally charged, Stowe was being suspended for violating police policies on handling moving vehicles. > … > Baker clarified two Alexandria police policies: when to stand in front of a moving vehicle and when to fire at, or from, a moving vehicle. > > Alexandria already prohibited officers from standing in the path of a moving vehicle in a “high-risk” situation. Stowe, Bartlett said, “felt this wasn’t a high-risk situation.” The chief disagreed and clarified the rule to indicate that officers may never stand in front of a moving vehicle except during routine traffic control. > > Baker ruled that Stowe “unreasonably placed himself in a position that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk as he attempted to stop the fleeing vehicle.” ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/2 "2007-01-03T17:46:43Z")
It’s too bad the officer is being punished for doing his job. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/3 "2007-01-03T17:51:26Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] It’s too bad the officer is being punished for doing his job. [/QUOTE] He’s not being suspended for doing his job. He’s being suspended for doing his job badly. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/4 "2007-01-03T17:55:40Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] It’s too bad the officer is being punished for doing his job. [/QUOTE] Um, did you read the article? He is being suspended for “ **violating police policies** on handling moving vehicles” and that he “ **unreasonably placed himself in a position** that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk.” ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/5 "2007-01-03T18:00:14Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] He’s not being suspended for doing his job. He’s being suspended for doing his job badly. [/QUOTE] Not in my opinion, not in his opinion, not in the opinion of the prosecutor. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/6 "2007-01-03T18:02:31Z")
[QUOTE=nyctea scandiaca] Um, did you read the article? He is being suspended for “ **violating police policies** on handling moving vehicles” and that he “ **unreasonably placed himself in a position** that allowed the situation to elevate to a level of high risk.” [/QUOTE] Of course I did. Did you think I would rush to make a judgement before all of the information came to light? ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/7 "2007-01-03T18:03:55Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Not in my opinion, not in his opinion, not in the opinion of the prosecutor. [/QUOTE] His opinion is biased, your opinion doesn’t count and the prosecutor had nothing to say about how well or not he did his job-- only whether or not his actions were criminal. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/8 "2007-01-03T18:04:18Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Not in my opinion, not in his opinion, not in the opinion of the prosecutor. [/QUOTE] With respect to your third item, that’s bullshit, of course. The prosecutor’s opinion was only that he didn’t do anything _that merited indictment_. The prosecutor’s decision not to press charges doesn’t mean the prosecutor thinks he did a good job. There’s no law against “doing a bad job.” With respect to your second item, well of course HE doesn’t think so. If employees were only suspended or fired when they themselves thought they did a bad job, nobody would ever be suspended or fired. Which leaves your first item as really the only meaningful part of your post. And who gives a shit? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/9 "2007-01-03T18:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Not in my opinion, not in his opinion, not in the opinion of the prosecutor. [/QUOTE] And probably not in the opinion of some random guy playing video games in Gdansk. And you all share something else in common. Your opinion doesn’t count. However, the opinion of his supervisor is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/10 "2007-01-03T18:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Not in my opinion, not in his opinion, not in the opinion of the prosecutor. [/QUOTE] This is the opinion of the Police Chief. Who’s opinion would YOU accept as the most expert in regards to proper police procedure? 1)you 2)the average cop 3)a prosecutor 4)the police chief. Sorry, gotta go with the chief on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/11 "2007-01-03T18:10:55Z")
I figured it was understood that “It’s too bad the officer was punished for doing his job,” was a statement of my opinion. Guess not. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/12 "2007-01-03T18:13:07Z")
But in the opinion(s) of the people who are tasked with setting policy and ensuring adherence, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/13 "2007-01-03T18:14:26Z")
I have to stick up for **garfield** ’s criticism of the police chief. Not because he’s right, god help us, but in the interest of reserving the right to do so myself at some point in the future. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/14 "2007-01-03T18:17:25Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] I figured it was understood that “It’s too bad the officer was punished for doing his job,” was a statement of my opinion. Guess not. [/QUOTE] I think everybody got that is was your opinion. They just think your opinion is a bag of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/15 "2007-01-03T18:30:44Z")
[QUOTE=rayh] I think everybody got that is was your opinion. They just think your opinion is a bag of shit. [/QUOTE] Isn’t the first time, most certainly won’t be the last. _shrug_ Some of the opinions in the other thread were bags of shit too – like saying the cop had to kill someone to satisfy his macho ego. For example. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/16 "2007-01-03T18:36:19Z")
Bad call on the Chief’s part. He should back up his officer. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/17 "2007-01-03T18:53:20Z")
[QUOTE=Debaser] Bad call on the Chief’s part. He should back up his officer. [/QUOTE] Just don’t back up in his direction or he might start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Duggy\_Fizzle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Duggy\_Fizzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duggy_Fizzle)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/18 "2007-01-03T18:53:30Z")
The morale in that police department must be in the basement. Nothing sucks more than to know your chief will hang you out to dry when you make a judgement call. From what I can glean about the P.D. policies from the article, they are written vaguely - which is not uncommon, unfortunately. That chief should be suspended for having a piss-poor policy and failing to properly train his subordinates. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/19 "2007-01-03T18:54:32Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Not in my opinion, not in his opinion, not in the opinion of the prosecutor. [/QUOTE] How, in your opinion, was an officer justified for deliberately jumping in front of a moving vehicle and firing at it in an attempt to stop it and killing a kid _in response to a dine `n dash?_ ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561/20 "2007-01-03T18:54:44Z")
It doesn’t look like he got suspended for the shooting. When he was in the situation where he started shooting, discharging the firearm was an appropriate (proceduarally) response. It wasn’t a criminal response, either. What he’s getting suspended for is putting himself in front of the car, creating a situation where his discharge was (procedurally) warranted, when there were other options he could have taken. I’m expressing no opinion of the rightness or wrongness of his actions on a moral level, solely pointing aout that nothing he did was criminal, and his procedural error was escalating a situation in violation of procedure. Outside of the debate about the morality of his actions, the suspension was warranted. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/update-cop-shoots-kills-teen-after-he-skips-out-on-check-at-ihop/386561.md?page=2)