# Updating a debunking of astrology **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 24, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217 "2008-11-24T05:49:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/21 "2008-11-24T18:49:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So a thorough debunking of astrology would require two people with the same sun sign, moon sign, and house rising, which in practice probably means that they were born within a couple of hours of each other. Me and my twin brother would qualify, and our lives have taken \*very \*divergent paths. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/22 "2008-11-24T18:51:07Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So a thorough debunking of astrology would require two people with the same sun sign, moon sign, and house rising, which in practice probably means that they were born within a couple of hours of each other. Like the twin sisters that I mentioned upthread who were born within minutes of each other. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/23 "2008-11-24T19:24:31Z")
That \*Mad \*article prompted me to collect pairs of people with not only the same sign, but the same _birthday_. My favorite “twins” were: - Don Knotts and Ernest Hemingway (21 July); and - G. Gordon Liddy and Shirley Chisholm (Nov 30) (I actually think that G. Gordon Liddy and _anyone_ sharing a birthday would suffice as evidence against astrology). I was always amused at people who would say that these twins weren’t all that different (“Well, Don and Ernie were both in the arts”, or “G. and Shirley were both involved in politics”). I would ask them, name two people whom you DO consider different. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/24 "2008-11-24T22:41:04Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > How would they do that? Wouldn’t their existence give some credence to the possibilty of instantaneous transmission of characteristics/information from far off planets, which is what astrology is claiming? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/25 "2008-11-25T00:43:43Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Wouldn’t their existence give some credence to the possibilty of instantaneous transmission of characteristics/information from far off planets, which is what astrology is claiming? Ignoring your “instantaneous transmission” claim for the moment, how does something happening on Saturn affect, say, your ability to play music? Can you propose **a credible causal link** with ANYTHING other than gravity happening on ANY other planet affecting ANYTHING at all on Earth, let alone human personality characteristics? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/26 "2008-11-25T00:55:00Z")
Since astrologers routinely predict events, how can you not believe in it? Which events, you ask? Errr… ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/27 "2008-11-25T01:17:56Z")
I wouldn’t think anything would be needed to debunk astrology beyond the [James Randi experiment](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw). ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/28 "2008-11-25T01:27:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Ignoring your “instantaneous transmission” claim for the moment, how does something happening on Saturn affect, say, your ability to play music? Can you propose **a credible causal link** with ANYTHING other than gravity happening on ANY other planet affecting ANYTHING at all on Earth, let alone human personality characteristics? No. - shuffles out of thread, all disconsolate \* ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/29 "2008-11-25T02:05:34Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > An astrological chart has an influence corresponding to each of the planets… So what happens now that Pluto is no longer a planet? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/30 "2008-11-25T02:31:17Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Can you propose **a credible causal link** … One of the interesting aspects of astrology is that (so far as I understand it, which may not be especially well) no mechanism for its effects is ever postulated, or thought necessary. You’re not supposed to ask HOW the stars/planets/asteroids etc. control your life - they just DO. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/31 "2008-11-25T03:03:42Z")
Susan B. Anthony and Paris Hilton - both Aquarius Abraham Lincoln and Dan Quayle - both Aquarius Ayn Rand and Zsa Zsa Gabor - both Aquarius Wolfgang Mozart and Dr Dre - both Aquarius George Washington and Sirhan Sirhan - both Pisces Glenn Miller and Kurt Cobain - both Pisces Rubert Murdoch and Ralph Nader - both Pisces Samuel Alito and Alec Baldwin - both Aries Warren Beatty and Richard Chamberlain - both Aries Jack Chick and Leonardo da Vinci - both Aries Carmen Electra and Katherine Hepburn - both Taurus Adolf Hitler and Golda Meir - both Taurus Florence Nightingale and Bettie Page - both Taurus George Bush and Bob Dylan - both Gemini Newt Gingrich and Che Guevera - both Gemini Queen Victoria and Marilyn Monroe - both Gemini Meryl Streep and Lindsay Lohan - both Cancer Bob Dole and Hunter Thompson - both Cancer Thurgood Marshall and O.J. Simpson - both Cancer ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/32 "2008-11-25T04:25:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Susan B. Anthony and Paris Hilton - both Aquarius > Abraham Lincoln and Dan Quayle - both Aquarius > Ayn Rand and Zsa Zsa Gabor - both Aquarius > Wolfgang Mozart and Dr Dre - both Aquarius > George Washington and Sirhan Sirhan - both Pisces > Glenn Miller and Kurt Cobain - both Pisces > Rubert Murdoch and Ralph Nader - both Pisces > Samuel Alito and Alec Baldwin - both Aries > Warren Beatty and Richard Chamberlain - both Aries > Jack Chick and Leonardo da Vinci - both Aries > Carmen Electra and Katherine Hepburn - both Taurus > Adolf Hitler and Golda Meir - both Taurus > Florence Nightingale and Bettie Page - both Taurus > George Bush and Bob Dylan - both Gemini > Newt Gingrich and Che Guevera - both Gemini > Queen Victoria and Marilyn Monroe - both Gemini > Meryl Streep and Lindsay Lohan - both Cancer > Bob Dole and Hunter Thompson - both Cancer > Thurgood Marshall and O.J. Simpson - both Cancer Thank you! I was about to pull my hair out with each successive post in which people had to play the popular SDMB game of “I’m not going to answer your question, but look how _smart_ I am.” Good resources for you, OP, would be [IMDB.com](http://IMDB.com) and Wikipedia. Just start typing in contemporary celebrities’ names and with only 12 “signs”, you’re bound to start finding matches quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/33 "2008-11-25T05:02:07Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Thank you! I was about to pull my hair out with each successive post in which people had to play the popular SDMB game of “I’m not going to answer your question, but look how _smart_ I am.” > > Good resources for you, OP, would be [IMDB.com](http://IMDB.com) and Wikipedia. Just start typing in contemporary celebrities’ names and with only 12 “signs”, you’re bound to start finding matches quickly. Exactly. Anybody can look up celebrity birthdays until they’re tired on clicking on links. Including the OP. Why should any of the rest of us bother? This isn’t a factual question in the first place. It’s just list making. It shouldn’t even be in GQ. Nothing to do with how smart we are. Everything to do with the question asked. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/34 "2008-11-25T06:21:06Z")
Thanks to Little Nemo and Cisco. 🙂 I have my own reasons–scientific grounds, to be sure–to oppose astrology, but I know damn well that trying to convince an astrology buff with science is like trying to shove a cat out from under a porch with a wet rope! More to the point, I want to play the game by the astrologers’ rules and I can still win. A case in point is two girls with whom I went to high school, “Molly” (born December 29, 1948) something of an Alexis Carrington Colby type, and “Vickie” (born January 1, 1950) more of a Krystle Carrington type. (“Capricorn.”) The two grew up in the same neighborhood and crossed swords for ten years–I was in the same senior class in high school and my path crossed their paths countless times. (I was born June 10, 1949, FWIW.) The two were quite different in that “Molly” seemed to have no concept of ethics (though a minister’s daughter) and “Vickie” was a perfect role model. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/35 "2008-11-25T06:47:41Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I’m not a believer at all in astrology, but shouldn’t Sep 20th and Sep 30th be under different signs. You’re right, Old Guy; I goofed. Twiggy’s birthday is September 19th. :o ---
**Author:** ![Tierce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@Tierce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tierce)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/36 "2008-11-25T08:13:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Glenn Miller and Kurt Cobain - both Pisces Thanks a lot. Now I’ve got a grunge version of Tuxedo Junction stuck in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/37 "2008-11-25T15:56:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Exactly. Anybody can look up celebrity birthdays until they’re tired on clicking on links. Including the OP. Why should any of the rest of us bother? This isn’t a factual question in the first place. It’s just list making. It shouldn’t even be in GQ. > > Nothing to do with how smart we are. Everything to do with the question asked. It’s not your business if it’s in the wrong forum or not. If you don’t want to answer the question, fine, but do you really need to flaunt your non-answer in the guy’s face for god’s sake? It’s rude. He didn’t ask what arguments will and will not convince astrology believers - he asked which celebrities with wildly different personalities share signs. If you’re butthurt about it being in the wrong forum then report it. If you want to talk about your own topic, start your own thread. How is what all of you guys did anything less than a hijack - which is looked down on for very good reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Anaglyph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anaglyph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaglyph)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/38 "2008-11-25T19:10:22Z")
Apparently, i[t has been shown](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-444681/Astrology-wont-help-true-love-claim-scientists.html) that marriages between “astrologically compatible” people don’t last any longer than marriages between “astrologically incompatible” people ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/39 "2008-11-26T01:20:50Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > It’s not your business if it’s in the wrong forum or not. If you don’t want to answer the question, fine, but do you really need to flaunt your non-answer in the guy’s face for god’s sake? It’s rude. He didn’t ask what arguments will and will not convince astrology believers - he asked which celebrities with wildly different personalities share signs. If you’re butthurt about it being in the wrong forum then report it. If you want to talk about your own topic, start your own thread. How is what all of you guys did anything less than a hijack - which is looked down on for very good reasons? [Moderating] This is rather ironic, since you were the one who started criticizing other posters, while at the same time failing to report the thread yourself. Whatever your opinion of what others have posted, this post is over the top. In the future refrain from this kind of post in GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217/40 "2008-11-26T01:28:53Z")
Given that this thread does lend itself more to list making than a simple factual answer, I think it is probably better off in MPSIMS than GQ. Hey, I have the same birthday as Pope Paul VI. Case closed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-a-debunking-of-astrology/474217.md?page=3)