# Updating Harry Stein's Ethnic Team Lists (Esquire, 1976) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 11, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977 "2006-03-11T22:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/1 "2006-03-11T22:01:30Z")
In 1977 _The Book of Lists_ printed “Harry Stein’s All-Time All-Star Argument Starter (5 Ethnic Baseball Teams),” which had been printed in _Esquire_ the year before. This included the Latins, the Poles, the Jews, the Blacks, and the Italians. On the Jewish team: Righthanded pitcher, Ed Reulbach Lefthanded pitcher, Sandy Koufax 🙂 Relief pitcher, Larry Sherry Catcher, Johnny Kling\* First base, Hank Greenberg Second base, Rod Carew Shortstop, Buddy Myer Third base, Al Rosen Left field, Sid Gordon Center field, Benny Kauff Right field, George Stone [Manager, “Lena” Blackburne; my choice] \*After the article appeared in Esquire, a reader wrote in, “Scratch Johnny Kling as the catcher. His wife was Jewish but he wasn’t. Put in Harry Danning.” I could put the others in (as well as the Irish and German teams), but I thought I’d just key in the Jewish team and see how well that goes over with the Teeming Millions first: Perhaps there are ethnic players since the publication of Stein’s article who might pass muster better than the ones Stein listed (another reader questioned the listing of Cesar Cedeno in right field, saying Minnie Minoso was a better choice). ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/2 "2006-03-11T22:28:17Z")
Shawn Green in right field instead of that Stone guy. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/3 "2006-03-11T23:04:45Z")
According to the link below Rod Carew was not a Jew either [NY Yankels: My All-Time, All-Star Jewish Team](http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.baseball/browse_thread/thread/c513788733e507f7/ca40a936134d56ea?lnk=st&q=jewish+all+star+team+baseball&rnum=1&hl=en#ca40a936134d56ea) [Here’s an Italian all star team](http://www.athomeplate.com/italianamerican.shtml) [Here’s a Latin All Star Team](http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/players/169115.html) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/4 "2006-03-12T08:14:11Z")
I followed those links. They’re impressive. 🙂 FWIW, here are the other four teams Stein gave in the article. Quite a few of Stein’s choices were the same as those in the links. 🙂 LATIN TEAM Right-handed pitcher, Juan Marichal (Dominican) Left-handed pitcher, Mike Cuellar (Cuban) Relief pitcher, Luis Arroyo (Puerto Rican) Catcher, Manny Sanguillen (Panamanian) First base, Orlando Cepeda (Puerto Rican) Second base, Bobby Ávila (Mexican) Shortstop, Luis Aparicio (Venezuelan) Third base, Tony Perez (Cuban) Left field, Tony Oliva (Cuban) Center field, Cesar Cedeño (Dominican) Right field, Roberto Clemente (Puerto Rican) POLISH TEAM Right-handed pitcher, Stan Coveleski Left-handed pitcher, Harry Coveleski Relief pitcher, Ron Perranoski Catcher, Carl Sawatski First base, Ted Kluszewski Second base, Bill Mazeroski Shortstop, Tony Kubek Third base, Whitey Kurowski Left field, Carl Yastrzemski Center field, Al Simmons [born Aloysius Szymanski] Right field, Stan Musial AFRICAN-AMERICAN TEAM Right-handed pitcher, Bob Gibson Left-handed pitcher, Vida Blue Relief pitcher, Satchel Paige Catcher, Roy Campanella First base, Frank Robinson Second base, Joe Morgan Shortstop, Ernie Banks Third base, Jackie Robinson Left field, Lou Brock Center field, Willie Mays Right field, Henry Aaron ITALIAN TEAM Right-handed pitcher, Eddie Cicotte Left-handed pitcher, Johnny Antonelli Relief pitcher, Dave Giusti Catcher, Yogi Berra First base, Dolph Camilli Second base, Tony Lazzeri Shortstop, Phil Rizzuto Third base, Joe Torre Left field, Dom DiMaggio Center field, Joe DiMaggio Right field, Carl Furillo My managers are Al Lopez (Castilian); Ed Lopat [born Lopatynski]; Frank Robinson; Yogi Berra. More to come; to save space, _Esquire_’s editors left the Irish team out; a reader suggested a German team. P. S. Why do you say Rod Carew isn’t Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/5 "2006-03-12T13:46:48Z")
I think this one belongs somewhere other than GQ. Let’s try IMHO. **samclem** ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/6 "2006-03-12T16:15:57Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > P. S. Why do you say Rod Carew isn’t Jewish? Yeah. I am pretty sure he is Jewish. Granted, he could play on several other teams too… ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/7 "2006-03-12T16:22:03Z")
Well slap my ass and call me Sally… Apparently Rod did not convert, contrary to numerous assumptive reports over the years (and Adam Sandler- an overeager baseball fan, I guess!). Easy mistake to make, as he has an historical aversion to speaking with the media, although that lessened somewhat after Michelle died- she urged him to speak out about the lack of minorities on bone marrow donor registries. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/8 "2006-03-12T16:22:56Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Yeah. I am pretty sure he is Jewish. Granted, he could play on several other teams too… My understanding is that though Carew married a Jewish woman and allowed his children to be raised in that religion, he never actually converted. Could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2006, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/9 "2006-03-12T17:33:54Z")
Carew publicly said that he was “probably” going to convert. This was in 1975. I can find NO newspaper article that says he ever did. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/10 "2006-03-13T08:38:27Z")
Well, all I have about Carew is Stein’s article…I don’t know what information he had. The magazine left out Stein’s Irish team, because of space limitations. A reader wrote in with the German team. Here they are: IRISH TEAM Right-handed pitcher, Joe McGinnity Left-handed pitcher, Dave McNally Relief pitcher, Don McMahon Catcher, Mickey Cochrane First base, Jimmy Foxx Second base, Eddie Collins Shortstop, Joe Cronin Third base, Jimmy Collins Left field, Lefty O’Doul Center field, Willie Keeler Right field, Tommy Holmes (Manager: John McGraw) GERMAN TEAM Right-handed pitcher, Bob Feller Left-handed pitcher, Warren Spahn Relief pitcher, Hoyt Wilhelm Catcher, Jerry Grote First base, Lou Gehrig Second base, Charlie Gehringer Shortstop, Honus Wagner Third base, Mike Schmidt Left field, Pete Reiser Center field, Harry Heilmann Right field, Babe Ruth Manager: Casey Stengel ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/11 "2006-03-13T09:22:19Z")
Stein’s original lists are over 30 years old so there certainly are some interesting additions that could be made. I would suggest a few but it’s late. However, I do think that on the All-Latin team, you could replace Manny Sanguillen with [Ivan Rodriguez](http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rodriiv01.shtml). Any other suggestions? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/12 "2006-03-13T14:02:20Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > The magazine left out Stein’s Irish team, because of space limitations. …or perhaps the possibility of turning the All-Time All-Star Argument Starter into the All-Time All-Star Donnybrook Starter. > [@](#): > > A reader wrote in with the German team. Presumably from Argentina, or a pigeon cote somewhere in Brooklyn. Seems to me we’ve left out one important (though maybe not ethnic) group in baseball: rednecks. My only question is, does Cobb go in center field or manage? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/13 "2006-03-13T14:19:26Z")
I’d put Ted Williams in the outfield of the Latin team. He was half Mexican. Hell, you could put half of Ted Williams in that outfield and still probably come out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/14 "2006-03-13T15:32:15Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > My managers are Al Lopez (Castilian); Ed Lopat [born Lopatynski]; Frank Robinson; Yogi Berra. Let Yogi Berra be the third base coach for the Italians – Tony LaRussa has a better managerial resume. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2006, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/15 "2006-03-13T15:35:33Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > I’d put Ted Williams in the outfield of the Latin team. He was half Mexican. Hell, you could put half of Ted Williams in that outfield and still probably come out ahead. Williams was either one-quarter European Spanish or one-quarter Mexican on his mother’s side (online sources seem to differ). ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/16 "2006-03-14T08:48:43Z")
How about: Right-handed pitcher, Dizzy Dean (Lucas, AR) Left-Handed pitcher, Ron Guidry (Carencero, LA) Relief pitcher, Hugh Casey (Atlanta, GA) Catcher, Bill Dickey (Bastrop, LA) First base, Bill Terry (Atlanta, GA) Second base, Rogers Hornsby (Winters, TX) Shortstop, Luke Appling (High Point, NC) Third base, Brooks Robinson (Little Rock, AR) Left field, Joe Jackson (Brandon Mills, SC) Center field, Ty Cobb (Narrows, Banks Co., GA) Right field, Mel Ott (Gretna, LA) Manager: Alvin Dark (Comanche, OK) ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/17 "2006-03-14T14:16:03Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > How about: > Right-handed pitcher, Dizzy Dean (Lucas, AR) > Left-Handed pitcher, Ron Guidry (Carencero, LA) > Relief pitcher, Hugh Casey (Atlanta, GA) > Catcher, Bill Dickey (Bastrop, LA) > First base, Bill Terry (Atlanta, GA) > Second base, Rogers Hornsby (Winters, TX) > Shortstop, Luke Appling (High Point, NC) > Third base, Brooks Robinson (Little Rock, AR) > Left field, Joe Jackson (Brandon Mills, SC) > Center field, Ty Cobb (Narrows, Banks Co., GA) > Right field, Mel Ott (Gretna, LA) > Manager: Alvin Dark (Comanche, OK) Gretna, LA, is a suburb adjacent to New Orleans … so Ott basically grew up in the city. How about Tris Speaker (Hubbard, TX) in his place? If you want more pop at 3B, you could use Eddie Mathews (Texarkana, TX). ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/18 "2006-03-14T15:27:14Z")
Thought I’d try to come up with an all-French team: SP - Andy Pettitte SP - Kevin Appier SP - Dolf Luque SP - Rheal Cormier SP - Hank Aguirre RP - Howie Pollet CL - Eric Gagne C - Mike LaValliere 1B - Jacques Fournier 2B - Napoleon Lajoie SS - Lou Bourdreau 3B - Jim Thome OF - Goose Goslin OF - Ed Delahanty OF - Ginger Beaumont Mgr - Bruce Bochy ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/19 "2006-03-15T00:14:27Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Thought I’d try to come up with an all-French team: > > SP - Andy Pettitte > SP - Kevin Appier > SP - Dolf Luque > SP - Rheal Cormier > SP - Hank Aguirre > RP - Howie Pollet > CL - Eric Gagne > > C - Mike LaValliere > 1B - Jacques Fournier > 2B - Napoleon Lajoie > SS - Lou Bourdreau > 3B - Jim Thome > OF - Goose Goslin > OF - Ed Delahanty > OF - Ginger Beaumont > > Mgr - Bruce Bochy That’s fine, but scratch Luque, Aguirre, and Delahanty. Luque was Cuban (he was born and died in Havana); Aguirre was Hispanic (I don’t know anything more specific about him); and Ed Delahanty was Irish (his mother’s name was Bridget Croke). His father was French-Norman-Irish. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2006, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977/20 "2006-03-15T23:34:20Z")
No takers? How about an all-foreign-born team (Bobby Thompson, Jack Graney, Bert Blyleven etc.) Or a team all of whose players use their initials (U. L. Washington, J. C. Martin, J. R. Richard, etc…) Or…? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/updating-harry-steins-ethnic-team-lists-esquire-1976/347977.md?page=2)