# UPS and PO Boxes - Whose problem is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894 "2003-12-19T02:04:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/21 "2003-12-19T17:12:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Derleth \* > \*\*Uh, how about those taxes I pay to subsidize something that’s never turned a profit? \*\* Another nitpick: "The Postal Service reported a $3.9 billion surplus for 2003 despite declining mail volume, and officials renewed their pledge to keep rates steady until 2006. " [Link](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031209/ap_on_go_ot/postal_finances_4) ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/22 "2003-12-19T17:40:25Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by sailor \* \*\*The USPS is not a government agency and AFAIK is not subsidized by your taxes since 1983 but, even if it were, it makes absolutely no difference . What is this sense of entitlement? You have no right or obligation to have a PO box. The USPS, offers their PO boxes on their terms and you can take it or leave it. The PO Box is property of the USPS for their own use, not yours. \*\* Well, except that we’re not just talking about a post office box that you rent from the USPS. We’re also talking about the mailbox in your home. The one that is attached to your house that you own. That is also considered [federal property](http://www.usps.com/websites/depart/inspect/smashbox.htm) and so technically neither Fed Ex nor UPS nor any other private delivery company (or your neighbor hand delivering an invitation to a block party) is allowed to put anything in your mailbox or mailslot without the permission of the USPS. Part of the justification put forth for this “federal property” idea is that it allows the federal government to punish someone who vandalizes your mailbox. But this strikes me as just a poor excuse for what is clearly the real reason (or at least one reason): to make it harder on the USPS’s competitors. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/23 "2003-12-19T17:53:18Z")
**sailor** , since I agree with your position and was addressing posters like **Derleth** who posted statements I don’t agree with (“If it were to give up the first-class mail monopoly, and if it allowed other people to deliver to mailboxes and other people to build post offices, I think a lot of this would die down.”) I don’t get what you’re upset about. The USPS is the victim here, not the problem. And **constantine** why in the world would I want to allow my mailbox to be turned into a public waste receptacle for every idiot who can churn out a flyer - or worse? The law that it is for USPS mail and nothing else is an absolute necessity. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/24 "2003-12-19T18:12:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > **sailor** , since I agree with your position and was addressing posters like **Derleth** who posted statements I don’t agree with (“If it were to give up the first-class mail monopoly, and if it allowed other people to deliver to mailboxes and other people to build post offices, I think a lot of this would die down.”) I don’t get what you’re upset about. I know. I’m sorry. I’ve been doing this lately where I read several posts and then I am not careful enough in composing my replies so I end misattributing things or giving the appearance that I am disagreeing with someone I agree with. I’ll try to be more careful. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/25 "2003-12-19T18:32:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*And **constantine** why in the world would I want to allow my mailbox to be turned into a public waste receptacle for every idiot who can churn out a flyer - or worse? The law that it is for USPS mail and nothing else is an absolute necessity. \*\* so much irony in this statement, I don’t know what to do. If I could refine it into iron I could be rich. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/26 "2003-12-19T18:36:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*The USPS is not a government agency and AFAIK is not subsidized by your taxes since 1983 but, even if it were, it makes absolutely no difference . \*\* > [@](#): > > The Post Office Department was transformed into the United States Postal Service, **an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States.** The mission of the Postal Service remained the same, as stated in Title 39 of the U.S. Code: > > The Postal Service shall have as its basic function the obligation to provide postal services to bind the Nation together through the personal, educational, literary, and business correspondence of the people. It shall provide prompt, reliable, and efficient services to patrons in all areas and shall render postal services to all communities. > > The new Postal Service officially began operations on July 1, 1971, when the Postmaster General ceased to be a member of the President’s cabinet. Source: [http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub100/pub100.htm#united](http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub100/pub100.htm#united) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/27 "2003-12-20T02:42:44Z")
I think that confirms what I said: it is not a government agency but an independent entity. Of course we could argue all day about how independent it really is but the fact is that it is no longer part of the government. And I got my information in the same place. It is not like I remembered what happened in 1983. At any rate, I do not believe the issue has much bearing on the present discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/28 "2003-12-20T03:19:09Z")
Let’s put it this way, **netscape 6**. All those who want to pay for the privilege of sending me junk mial - subsidizing first class mail and thereby keeping the price down for me - can do so. But you don’t get that privilege for free. Capish? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/29 "2003-12-20T04:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > originally posted by constantine > Well, except that we’re not just talking about a post office box that you rent from the USPS. We’re also talking about the mailbox in your home. The one that is attached to your house that you own. That is also considered federal property and so technically neither Fed Ex nor UPS nor any other private delivery company (or your neighbor hand delivering an invitation to a block party) is allowed to put anything in your mailbox or mailslot without the permission of the USPS. According to section 1.2 of [http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d041.htm#Rbi36796](http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d041.htm#Rbi36796) , this is not true of door slots or nonlockable bins used with apartment house mailboxes. ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/30 "2003-12-20T07:08:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Exapno Mapcase \* > \*\*Let’s put it this way, **netscape 6**. > > All those who want to pay for the privilege of sending me junk mial - subsidizing first class mail and thereby keeping the price down for me - can do so. > > But you don’t get that privilege for free. > > Capish? \*\* and if I consider going to get the mail on a cold and/or rainy day (over half the year here) only to find an ad for life insurance a needless hassel? I might feel different if I could make the junk mail stop, but local mailers can mail all they want to me legally. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![netscape\_6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8c91f0/32.png) [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/31 "2003-12-20T07:12:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by doreen \* > \*\*According to section 1.2 of [http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d041.htm#Rbi36796](http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d041.htm#Rbi36796) , this is not true of door slots or nonlockable bins used with apartment house mailboxes. \*\* This is good. Otherwise all the times I have returned cd-rws to my friend in town (MFS net, or manual file swaping network) through the mail slot when he was not home would make me a felon. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/32 "2003-12-20T14:52:53Z")
I did get a UPS package in my PO BOX, sort of. UPS mailed a card to my box stating I have a package waiting at the USP counter for pickup. Actually this is the same if I get a package too big for the box, I get a card from the USPS stating I have a package to pickup at the counter. The big difference it that for the USP pickup the counter was about 1 mile away. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/33 "2003-12-20T15:23:05Z")
heh. I don’t get mail delivery. Nor do about 10000 other people in the county where I work. Oh and they just opened up a new post office. When you get a notice in your box that you have a package to pick up, sometimes the package is at the other post office. That did not go over very well. Many of these folks are paying for the privledge to have a PO box. While the rest of the country gets mail deliverd to their door. It’s sort of a mess and a bunch of people are pissed off. UPS - send it to work. ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/34 "2003-12-20T15:49:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*But people are paying a fee to rent PO Boxes. I would think that the USPS could work out some kind of a deal with UPS to try and attract more PO Box customers, like Mail Boxes Etc. does. > > And let’s say they need some part for a piece of equipment at the Post Office and the company that sells them only ships via UPS. What would they do? 😉 \*\* UPS will drive up to the Post Office, which incidently has a street addres, carry the package, addressed to "U.S.Post Office at such & such address, in, get a signature if required, and depart. It’s just another delivery point to them. The USPS will only deliver mail which has had postage paid for it’s delivery whether to a street address or a P.O.Box. * * * “Beware of the Cog” ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/35 "2003-12-21T03:42:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by doreen \* > \*\*According to section 1.2 of [http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d041.htm#Rbi36796](http://pe.usps.gov/text/dmm/d041.htm#Rbi36796) , this is not true of door slots or nonlockable bins used with apartment house mailboxes. \*\* Look **doreen** if you’re going to resort to actual “cites” to “regulations,” well, that just kind of takes the fun out of it. And this is a mere 24 hours after I said, in another (totally unrelated thread): > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by constantine \* > \*\*I think **doreen** has it exactly right. \*\* So, alright, I’m going to change the subject and tell a story told to me by a friend who is a federal prosecutor. Criminal defendant, let’s call him knucklehead (for reasons that will become apparent) gets arrested for suspicion of drunk driving. He is sitting in the back of the police car when the police put the box containing his, uh, “sample” in the mailbox so it can go to the lab for chemical testing. Then they book knucklehead and release him. So knucklhead leaves the police station and walks over to the “Autozone” auto parts store about a block away. Then he buys a flare. Then he walks back to the mailbox and lights the flare and drops it inside the mailbox. A model citizen bystander sees knucklehead putting the lit flare into the mailbox, and runs into the nearest business, which is, you guessed it, the Autozone, and says, “hey call the cops, some knucklehead just put a flare into a mailbox.” The guy at the Autozone says, “wow, that’s funny, 5 minutes ago a guy bought a flare here.” [dramatic pause] “With a credit card.” Shortly thereafter, the cops picked knucklhead up for felony tampering with the mails. And, to top it all off, the flare that knucklehead tossed in the mailbox burned everyone else’s mail, but not his sample. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894/36 "2003-12-21T04:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by enipla \* > \*\*heh. > > I don’t get mail delivery. Nor do about 10000 other people in the county where I work. > > Oh and they just opened up a new post office. When you get a notice in your box that you have a package to pick up, sometimes the package is at the other post office. That did not go over very well. > > Many of these folks are paying for the privledge to have a PO box. While the rest of the country gets mail deliverd to their door. It’s sort of a mess and a bunch of people are pissed off. > > UPS - send it to work. \*\* I used to live in Bethel Island, CA. We didn’t have delivery, but the boxes were free to residents. This was about 30 years ago, and only included standard boxes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ups-and-po-boxes-whose-problem-is-it/219894.md?page=1)