# Upstairs, Downstairs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 11, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922 "2011-04-11T02:08:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/21 "2011-04-12T17:31:46Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > It’s been a while since the original. What actually happened to the Bellamys that caused the house to be abandoned? James (who’d been the actual homeowner since Lady Marjorie died) lost all his (& Rose’s) money when the stock market crashed. Then he killed himself and Lord & Lady Bellamy moved to a small house in the country with Rose basically being demoted from Lady’s Maid to Maid-of-all-work. It was supposed to be dived into flats, but obviously that didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![liz999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@liz999](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liz999)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/22 "2011-04-12T19:09:24Z")
hmmm watched the first episode and feel disappointed. Rose looks like a washed up old starved cat, the new couple is lifeless, the staff lacking the original authenticity. in fact everything is a faded attempt to relive a glorious past. the only interesting character is the old lady, who is both classy and sassy. sorry, it didn’t touch me. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/23 "2011-04-18T16:55:51Z")
I have a (somewhat dumb) question about the second episode. Did Rachel die of natural causes or did she commit suicide? ---
**Author:** ![h.sapiens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@h.sapiens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/h.sapiens)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/24 "2011-04-18T17:15:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I have a (somewhat dumb) question about the second episode. Did Rachel die of natural causes or did she commit suicide? I assumed it was the asthma attack. I hadn’t even considered suicide. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/25 "2011-04-18T17:28:47Z")
OK, that make sense, especially given the stress of the evening, with her seeing the fascists rallying in London and the chauffeur of the house where she was living being one of them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/26 "2011-04-18T17:40:45Z")
I imagine the audience was supposed to think that Sir Hallam running downstairs in sudden and desperate need of a servant’s help meant that the lady of the house was having another miscarriage? :eek: But then, seeing that both a male and female servant were there, he would probably have insisted on the maid if it was that. And I presume a college-educated well-employed gentleman doesn’t know how to drive as late as the mid-1930s? :dubious: And what’s up with Lady Agnes not wanting to raise the maid’s daughter?! Was she merely rebelling against her husband making the decision by himself, or is she somewhat anti-semitic, or something else I’m missing? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/27 "2011-04-18T18:26:04Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > I imagine the audience was supposed to think that Sir Hallam running downstairs in sudden and desperate need of a servant’s help meant that the lady of the house was having another miscarriage? :eek: But then, seeing that both a male and female servant were there, he would probably have insisted on the maid if it was that. And I presume a college-educated well-employed gentleman doesn’t know how to drive as late as the mid-1930s? :dubious:… Sir Hallam not knowing how to drive isn’t at all unusual for the time. He’s never been in a position where he can afford a car, but not a driver, if he served in WWI at all he’d have been an officer, doesn’t appear to have any interest cars, and he’s a diplomat who until know has spent most of his career abroad (where he likely had official drivers). A man of his age and class would not have needed to know how to drive and would not have bothered learning unless he had an interest in driving his own car. As to Lady Agnes; there are a number of issues at play and antisemitism is probally the least important. She’s old money (can probally trace her ancestry back to the Marcher Lords), Lotte is not only a servant’s daughter she’s a foreigner to boot! What will people say? And Agnes is finally about to have her own child, after years of trying, something she want’s more than anything else, and suddenly a random 8 yr old girl is dropped in her lap. Regarding sending Lotte to relatives back in Germany; I think that indicates Agnes’s lack of knowledge re the situation in Germany more than antisemitism per se. It’s only 1936 after all, Kristallnacht is still more than 2 years away. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/28 "2011-04-18T21:01:33Z")
Another thing. It wasn’t clear to me if the chauffeur was let go. But I can’t imagine that Sir Hallam will keep him on, given that he works in the Foreign Office. (I’d think that the chauffeur would be too much of a security risk. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/29 "2011-04-18T21:27:10Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Another thing. It wasn’t clear to me if the chauffeur was let go. But I can’t imagine that Sir Hallam will keep him on, given that he works in the Foreign Office. (I’d think that the chauffeur would be too much of a security risk. Spoilers for part 3 Sir Hallam does get called out by hid boss for having a security risk in his household. It isn’t the chauffeur. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/30 "2011-04-18T21:34:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > As to Lady Agnes; there are a number of issues at play and antisemitism is probally the least important. She’s old money (can probally trace her ancestry back to the Marcher Lords), Lotte is not only a servant’s daughter she’s a foreigner to boot! What will people say? And Agnes is finally about to have her own child, after years of trying, something she want’s more than anything else, and suddenly a random 8 yr old girl is dropped in her lap. Regarding sending Lotte to relatives back in Germany; I think that indicates Agnes’s lack of knowledge re the situation in Germany more than antisemitism per se. It’s only 1936 after all, Kristallnacht is still more than 2 years away. Besides social issues, I think it’s a fairly natural reaction to say, “You want me to raise some strange kid?” This is, by any definition, Not Her Problem. I think if anything, Sir Hallam’s reaction is more unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/31 "2011-04-18T21:46:29Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Spoilers for part 3 > > Sir Hallam does get called out by hid boss for having a security risk in his household. It isn’t the chauffeur. 😉 Actually, now that I think about it, the chauffeur is certainly going to be sacked for calling the cops on Lady Pensie (let alone his political activities). ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/32 "2011-04-18T23:52:06Z")
I didn’t get Lady Hallam’s reaction to Lotte, either. It’s not like she’s going to adopt the child, just pay for her upbringing in a matter suitable to her station as a servant’s child. I think the chauffeur is going to get fired for his familiarities with Lady Persie. That girl should know better! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2011, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/33 "2011-04-20T12:55:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Spoilers for part 3 > > Sir Hallam does get called out by hid boss for having a security risk in his household. It isn’t the chauffeur. 😉 Well, [the cook](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Reid) is a Blood-sucking Plasmavore! ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/34 "2011-04-26T03:25:56Z")
So now that part III has finally aired in the US what did everybody think of it? I’m glad Sir Hallam finally confronted Lady Persie. She may have left, but I don’t doubt she’ll be back next year. She has no money beyond what Lady Agnes gives her in allowance and all that money comes from Sir Hallam. Of course he might think it worth it just to keep her abroad. 😉 Then again I could see her marrying a dashing young SS officer (Anglo-Saxon & celtic blood counted as Aryan, right?) and bring him home. I liked the Pamela subplot, and I hope we’ll be seeing more of her next series. And it looks as if they’re setting Lotte up to being adopted by the Hollands. An expensive boarding school (did the UK even have Jewish boarding schools in the '30s or were there only day schools), celebrating holidays upstairs with the family, etc. Lady Agnes has warmed up alot and I can see her treating Lotte more and more like a daughter, especially if she never gives birth to one of her own. Nice to Johnny back. I think his romance with Ivy will blossom, but I don’t see it ending well. I doubt either of them have any sex education and if Ivy get’s in trouble she’s screwed. Pregnancy would of course mean instant dismissal for her (& possibly for Johnny as well if Lady Agnes knew he was responsible). They can’t get married; he can’t support her even if he could somehow marry and keep his job. Best case scenario he’d end up going down the mines in Wales. And having been raised in one herself I don’t see Ivy sending her child to be raised in an orphanage. That leaves one option and Ivy certainly isn’t going to have access to the kind of proper physician Lady Persie’s probally going to have to see at least once. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/35 "2011-04-26T12:49:35Z")
I thoroughly enjoyed the last episode & look forward to the longer season that will air next year. In the UK–let’s hope it shows up on PBS without much delay. We have an interesting household to follow as the War looms. Even the chauffeur seems to have redeemed himself. Loved the cameo by Cecil Beaton! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/36 "2011-04-26T13:26:32Z")
I’m assuming that’s Prince Albert they’re portraying in the series. So why isn’t he stuttering? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/37 "2011-04-26T13:30:22Z")
No, that was Prince George, the Duke of Kent. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2011, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922/38 "2011-04-26T14:04:24Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, that was Prince George, the Duke of Kent. Oops. Sometimes I doze off during these period pieces. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/upstairs-downstairs/577922.md?page=1)