# "Uptown Girl" and "Bolero" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198 "2005-05-03T06:52:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/1 "2005-05-03T06:52:54Z")
Are they the same song? Or am I hallucinating? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/2 "2005-05-03T07:09:57Z")
Ravel’s _Bolero_ alternates between two themes. _Uptown Girl_ does resemble the first theme. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/3 "2005-05-03T13:51:02Z")
I’ve also heard it claimed that “Bolero” is the same song as “Memories” (from _Cats_). ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/4 "2005-05-03T16:36:05Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#): > > Are they the same song? Or am I hallucinating? Well, off of the same album (_An Innocent Man_), Billy Joel uses Beethoven for the chorus of “This Night.” ---
**Author:** ![Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Misery\_Loves\_Co](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misery_Loves_Co)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/5 "2005-05-03T17:56:37Z")
Well, those three songs only share the first bit of Bolero’s primary melody, approximately: “uptown girl, she’s been living in an . . .” and “Memories, all alone in the moonlight, I . . .” The harmonies are different, as is the overall song structure, so while they may quote Bolero they are not “the same song”. I could easily believe that Weber and Joel were inspired by Bolero, maybe even deliberately quoted Ravel, but it’s a stretch to say more than that. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/6 "2005-05-03T19:24:14Z")
Ravel’s _Bolero_, composed in **1928** , is not a song. It is an orchestral piece, more specificially, it is a sylized _bolero_ for orchestra, the bolero itself being a Spanish dance. No singing is involved, neither is any sort of song form. ---
**Author:** ![Figaro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ea666f/32.png) [@Figaro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Figaro)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/7 "2005-05-03T20:02:50Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Ravel’s _Bolero_, composed in **1928** , is not a song. It is an orchestral piece, more specificially, it is a sylized _bolero_ for orchestra, the bolero itself being a Spanish dance. No singing is involved, neither is any sort of song form. That’s true, of course, if we must be literal. But needlessly haughty comments like that are what give we Classical folk a bad name with the young’uns, Knorf. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tracy\_Lord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/8 "2005-05-03T20:42:09Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Ravel’s _Bolero_, composed in **1928** , is not a song. It is an orchestral piece, more specificially, it is a sylized _bolero_ for orchestra, the bolero itself being a Spanish dance. No singing is involved, neither is any sort of song form. Gee, Mr. Knorf, thanks! I’ve never heard of a sylized bolero before! _crosses legs and looks up expectantly_ ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2005, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-and-bolero/302198/9 "2005-05-03T23:26:00Z")
Hey, what about that Bach’s Minuet! It’s a total ripoff of Lover’s Concerto!