# Uptown Girl - Is it about New York? Would a girl from Uptown be rich? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 29, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903 "2004-10-29T18:58:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@Kel\_Varnsen\_Latex\_Division](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kel_Varnsen_Latex_Division)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/1 "2004-10-29T18:58:33Z")
Is the Billy Joel song _Uptown Girl_ about New York? Would a girl from uptown be rich? Isn’t Harlem uptown? Is Harlem part of “white bread world”? ---
**Author:** ![Governor\_Quinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d26b3c/32.png) [@Governor\_Quinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Governor_Quinn)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/2 "2004-10-29T19:03:29Z")
> [@Kel Varnsen - Latex Division](#): > > Is the Billy Joel song _Uptown Girl_ about New York? Would a girl from uptown be rich? Isn’t Harlem uptown? Is Harlem part of “white bread world”? In rough order: 1. Yes, it is. “Downtown” referes to southern parts of Manhattan Island, “Uptown” to northern parts. 2. It depends. The Upper East Side (also known as the “Silk Stocking District”) is one of the richest areas in the country. 3. Yes, Harlem is uptown. 4. Obviously not. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/3 "2004-10-29T19:20:25Z")
> [@Governor Quinn](#): > > It The Upper East Side (also known as the “Silk Stocking District”) is one of the richest areas in the country. Indeed. An 800 sq. ft. condo runs in the neighborhood of a million bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/4 "2004-10-29T20:40:01Z")
I think Harlem is part of the White Bread World actually. (WBW) It’s my understanding that WBW means not-Jewish or WASP. But I maybe wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/5 "2004-10-29T20:58:58Z")
East Harlem and West Harlem are predominantly Hispanic while Central Harlem is almost completely black/African American/non-Hispanic. On the whole, over 150,000 blacks live in Harlem compared to about 110,000 Hispanics. All other races are pretty much negligible. The above are 2000 figures from [The New York City Department of City Planning](http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcp/html/lucds/cdstart.html). ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/6 "2004-10-29T21:14:39Z")
Although Harlem is uptown, I don’t think it’s regarded as a part of “Uptown”. The latter is a reference to the [Upper East Side](http://www.nycvisit.com/content/index.cfm?pagePkey=447) and, to a lesser extent, the [Upper West Side](http://www.nycvisit.com/content/index.cfm?pagePkey=448). ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/7 "2004-10-29T21:23:04Z")
Okay, here’s all the myths and legends and unsubstantiated assertions I’ve heard about these phrases, all rolled into one. Back in the old mill town days, “uptown” refered to the parts of the city that were on a higher elevation. The factory smoke was less of a problem, and you got water from the part of the stream that was cleaner. According to all this folklore, the classic “uptown” (at least in the U.S.) is in Brimingham, Alabama where the old rich neighborhoods are on bluffs overlooking the rest of the city. “Downtown” was (it follows) the lowest elevation, which was usually where the docks for the river or seaport were located. Businesses evolved there, and “downtown” usually became the marketplace and center of commerce – with its motley collection of different types of individuals. Downtown was also the place the scruffy artist-types would hang out, because housing was less expensive than in the more desirable “uptown.” “White bread” of course refers to highly processed bleached bread, the preferred form for the wealthy social class. ---
**Author:** ![Rufus\_Xavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@Rufus\_Xavier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rufus_Xavier)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/8 "2004-10-29T21:32:21Z")
Are you telling me they don’t eat white bread in Harlem? Whadda they eat there? Pumpernickel? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/9 "2004-10-29T21:35:25Z")
I always thought the song referred to Christie Brinkley, his former wife. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/10 "2004-10-29T21:45:20Z")
> [@Terminus Est](#): > > Although Harlem is uptown, I don’t think it’s regarded as a part of “Uptown”. Sure it is. “Hey white boy, what you doin’ uptown Hey white boy, you chasin’ our women around?” – Lou Reed, “Waiting for the Man” (classic Velvet Underground song about going to Harlem {“up to Lexington one-two-five” = taking the East Side IRT to the 125th Street station} to score heroin) However, Uptown Versus Downtown generally disregards Harlem, not to mention the price of a co-op apartment on Jane Street. The uptown/downtown dichotomy in NYC is, as hinted in earlier posts, the difference between WASP-JAP-clean living-Park Avenue **Rich** and Bohemian-artsy-ethnic-St. Mark’s Place **Scruffy**. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/11 "2004-10-29T22:10:08Z")
I know what a WASP is but what’s a WASP-JAP? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/12 "2004-10-29T22:32:17Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > I know what a WASP is but what’s a WASP-JAP? I assume you also know what a JAP is. **Uke** combined the two because both can be found in the Upper East Side. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/13 "2004-10-29T22:33:28Z")
JAP = Jewish American Princess, an upper or upper-middle class Jewish girl with a daddy who dotes on her and gives her whatever she wants, who wants his little girl to marry a nice doctor or dentist, and who definitely doesn’t want her to be associated with those greasy street boys from downtown. Rachel Green on _Friends_ is a classic JAP stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/14 "2004-10-29T22:51:27Z")
Thanks for the clarifications, gents, and apologies to anyone offended by the acronym JAP (or WASP, for that matter). “I use cliches because everyone understands them. That’s why they’re cliches.” – Jack Broach, in Ross Thomas’s _Voodoo, Ltd._, 1992. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/15 "2004-10-29T23:26:14Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > I think Harlem is part of the White Bread World actually. (WBW) > > It’s my understanding that WBW means not-Jewish or WASP. > > But I maybe wrong. This really got me to thinking. I think “white bread,” as Billy Joel used it, means bland, boring, homogenous, and well, white, like the actual qualities of white bread. This is the usage of the phrase that I knew growing up. It’s only recently have I seen white bread being used when discussing trends about socio-economic class, apparently whether or not one’s family eats white bread is a somewhat reliable indicator of class distinctions (in America). I would say Harlem (or, more accurately, the stereotype of Harlem that has plenty of exceptions) IS NOT white bread in the first case, and IS white bread in the second. Reverse that for the Upper East Side. Just in case anyone is hoping I nitpick this a little more, by white bread, I’m talking about Wonder Bread and similar sliced brands, not bread that is white, like French bread from a bakery. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/16 "2004-10-29T23:41:24Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > I assume you also know what a JAP is. **Uke** combined the two because both can be found in the Upper East Side. Being from the South, where if you’re white, you’re automitcally assumed to be Protestant and of British stock, I’m not too familiar with Jewish stereotypes. Hell, I was eighteen or older (2000 or later) before I realized Woody Allen, Jerry Seinfeld, etc. were Jewish and played stereotyped characters. > [@Number Six](#): > > JAP = Jewish American Princess, an upper or upper-middle class Jewish girl with a daddy who dotes on her and gives her whatever she wants, who wants his little girl to marry a nice doctor or dentist, and who definitely doesn’t want her to be associated with those greasy street boys from downtown. > > Rachel Green on Friends is a classic JAP stereotype. Is it specifically ethnic, religious, or both? As is, that sounds like a WASJ. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/17 "2004-10-30T00:42:09Z")
Okay, I know what a WASP is, and what a JAP is but what is a WASP-JAP? The obvious interpretation would be someone that is both WASP and JAP at the same time, but how is this possible? Can you be both Protestant and Jewish? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/18 "2004-10-30T00:48:43Z")
That’s already been replied to. > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > **Uke** combined the two because both can be found in the Upper East Side. Perhaps WASP/JAP would have been better phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/19 "2004-10-30T01:30:31Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Is it specifically ethnic, religious, or both? As is, that sounds like a WASJ. It’s a little on the ethnic side, I suppose, but really it’s just a way of describing a spoiled girl who happens to be Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903/20 "2004-10-30T03:53:58Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > I always thought the song referred to Christie Brinkley, his former wife. He _is_ referring to Christie Brinkley. It’s just a simple way of saying that he’s a rough-and-tumble street guy who’s in love with a beautiful, rich upper-class woman. To wit: the video of the song, which portrays Billy as a mechanic and Christie as a fur-wearing customer. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptown-girl-is-it-about-new-york-would-a-girl-from-uptown-be-rich/271903.md?page=2)