# Uptowns and High streets instead of Downtowns and Main streets **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 11, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278 "2021-01-11T18:52:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/21 "2021-01-12T09:11:45Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > I’m not British, but I think they would say “central London” or something like that. Yes, this. We’d use ‘city centre’ for what you’d call downtown. London is a little special, as, as pointed out, London is actually a collection of cities - City of London (the oldest part and our equivalent of Wall Street), City of Westminster (seat of government and the main shopping district) and City of Southwark (south of the river). So ‘Central London’ is a little ill defined, and pretty much encompasses the City and Westminster. If we’re going shopping or to the theatre, we might say we’re ‘going up West’ - referring to Westminster. If visiting London from another part of the country, you would go ‘up to London’, even if coming down from the North, as you go ‘up’ to the Capital. ---
**Author:** ![zbuzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@zbuzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zbuzz)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/22 "2021-01-12T09:57:17Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > If visiting London from another part of the country, you would go ‘up to London’, even if coming down from the North, as you go ‘up’ to the Capital. One of the most confusing things about watching Downton Abbey when they would say that. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/23 "2021-01-12T09:58:55Z")
> [@zbuzz](#): > > One of the most confusing things about watching Downton Abbey when they would say that. Many Brits probably don’t know this, but it’s a thing! ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/24 "2021-01-12T09:59:38Z")
The City of London is a special case in that it is inside Greater London but has a number of separate institutions. Go back a couple of thousand years and this is where the Romans (after stomping the Saxons) built a city. Not then a capital city but the lowest point on the River Thames that they could bridge for access to the South Coast ports and the mainland. Some of their walls are still standing and the ‘gates’ remain in names of districts - Ludgate, Aldgate, Bishopsgate, Moorgate and Cripplegate. The City has its own police force, recognisable by the red and white chequers on their hats. Unsurprisingly, they specialise in fraud and financial crime. They also have their own (largely ceremonial) Mayor. A Londoner would talk about their city as The West End, The City and The East End. The West End is roughly equivalent to the US ‘Uptown’ and is where most of the tourist sites, like the Houses of Parliament and most of the theatres are. The East End used to be heavily industrial and was the main port. These days the old warehouses are expensive flats/apartments, the docks are a tourist attraction and marinas, and the old slums are almost entirely demolished. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/25 "2021-01-12T10:34:15Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > A Londoner would talk about their city as The West End, The City and The East End. I wonder if this creates confusion for visitors? ‘We’ all know that The City refers to a very small part of central London (also known as The Square Mile, to give you context) - and it’s a part many tourists won’t need to go to unless they’re visiting St Paul’s or the Museum of London. It’s certainly not ‘downtown’ as visitors might infer. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/26 "2021-01-12T10:50:35Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > The East End used to be heavily industrial and was the main port. These days the old warehouses are expensive flats/apartments, the docks are a tourist attraction and marinas, and the old slums are almost entirely demolished. Sorry we’re totalling derailing this thread, but for those interested, The East End is roughly analogous with Lower East Side Manhattan - historic home to industry, the poor and immigrant populations (and Jack The Ripper territory), now all cool restaurants, design agencies and loft apartments (mingled in with existing areas of deprivation). I used to live there and loved it. But certainly never downtown or uptown! ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/27 "2021-01-12T12:39:58Z")
Here in Corpus Christi we have an upper downtown and a lower downtown. There’s a hill which separates the two, thus the names. The main street is also divided in two. There’s upper Broadway and lower Broadway, which run roughly parallel to each other. We don’t have an uptown. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/28 "2021-01-12T14:42:32Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > How often is this true in reality? In my very limited experience, I can’t think of any towns or cities where this is true, though there are some where “Main Street” may well be what used to be the principal street long ago when it was first named. Unless you’re thinking that a freeway should be considered the Main Street in a town, it’s very common for the Main Street to be Main Street. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/29 "2021-01-12T14:52:16Z")
Yes, perhaps not true in major metropolitan area cities but very true for smaller rural towns. In some small towns Main Street is just about the only street. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/30 "2021-01-12T15:01:56Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Yes, perhaps not true in major metropolitan area cities but very true for smaller rural towns. In some small towns Main Street is just about the only street. Actually, that’s an interesting side question, and perhaps it ends very quickly without having to count far down from the top. What’s the largest US municipality in which “Main Street” is the (or maybe even just “a”) principal commercial street or main thoroughfare? Here in Chicago, I’m not entirely sure there even is a Main Street. Our equivalent of a “Main Street” would be Michigan Avenue, or perhaps State Street. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/31 "2021-01-12T15:10:29Z")
Doesn’t surprise me that Uptown is commonly used in England, because it is where you’ll find a [Prince](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiuSRQHLv88). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/32 "2021-01-12T15:19:26Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > it’s very common for the Main Street to be Main Street. You may well be correct, but I can’t remember encountering any examples in my own experience, which as I said is limited. Now I’m wondering if it’s a regional thing. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/33 "2021-01-12T15:48:17Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > My understanding of London is that it is divided up into boroughs, two of which are called the “City of London” and the “City of Westminster.” The City of London is casually referred to as “the City.” So what we Americans might consider to be “downtown London,” they just call “the City.” Kind of. In a London context, “the City” indeed means the City of London, but that is tiny; it covers only about a square mile (hence the common term “Square Mile” for the City of London) in the area around St Paul’s Cathedral and the Tower. This was, historically, where London as a self-governing municipality orginated, but by now what is considered London is much larger than the City of London. The City does contain a large concentration of banking business, but it is by far not the only banking-heavy part of London - take, for instance, the Canary Wharf area in the Docklands, east of the City. Nor are the governmental buildings part of the City of London (that’s in Westminster). So I would say there are many parts of London which, from an American point of view, might be considered “downtown” but lie outside the City of London. The usual word in British English for what Americans would call “downtown” is, in my view, “city centre”. It’s definitely in use (with that meaning) in other cities of the UK. As far as London is concerned, “city centre” might give rise to a risk of misunderstanding with “the City”; but I wouldn’t think it would be far-fetched to someone from a not-so-central neighbourhood of London to say that they’re going “to the city centre” when going to Westminster (which is not in the City of London but certainly fulfils “downtown”-like functions). ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/34 "2021-01-12T15:53:52Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > Most European cities seem to use “central business district” for what Americans would call downtown. Not in my experience. Architects and urban planners might use that term, but in common parlance, people would be much more likely to speak of “the centre” or “the city” (in the respective languge, of course). Note that in many European languages, it is perfectly common to say you’re going “to the city” if what you mean is going to the centre of the city - even where you’re already within the same city as an administrative unit. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/35 "2021-01-12T16:37:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > What’s the largest US municipality in which “Main Street” is the (or maybe even just “a”) principal commercial street or main thoroughfare? Just off the top of my head, Main Street in Dallas is the heart of the downtown district, and JFK’s motorcade went down Main before turning a block north to Elm. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/36 "2021-01-12T16:53:00Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > The town expanded but after a while it was realised that, as High Street was the lowest part of town and regularly flooded, that this was not in the long term interests of the civics so they moved the main street up the hill to Hare Street. I would speculate that this may be the historical origins of many High Streets and Uptowns. At one point, they may have been an area that was physically more elevated than its surroundings. In a region with periodic flooding, siting a business or residence in an elevated area would have been desirable so this elevated area would have developed into the prestigious part of town where the rich people lived. Later, when flooding was brought under control, the prestige of High Street and Uptown would have already been established and would remain. And when new towns were settled, the richer part of the community might have been named High Street or Uptown to associate it with the areas with those names in older cities. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/37 "2021-01-12T17:23:42Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > As far as London is concerned, “city centre” might give rise to a risk of misunderstanding with “the City”; but I wouldn’t think it would be far-fetched to someone from a not-so-central neighbourhood of London to say that they’re going “to the city centre” when going to Westminster (which is not in the City of London but certainly fulfils “downtown”-like functions). No, city centre doesn’t mean anything for London - we’d say ‘I’m going to the West End’, or ‘I’m going up West’. We might even say ‘I’m going into town’ (another colloquialism to refer to the heart of any town or city)’ - the inference being you’re heading to Westminster, because that’s where all the shops are. Central London _is_ a phrase which is used, but context is everything. It covers too large an area, so might be something news readers might use, or travel companies to describe hotel location, but nothing more specific. If you were actually heading to the City of London, you’d say so, ie ‘I’ve got an interview in The City’ - everyone would know where you meant. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/38 "2021-01-12T17:28:04Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Doesn’t surprise me that Uptown is commonly used in England, because it is where you’ll find a [Prince](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiuSRQHLv88). Woah there, we don’t use Uptown! We just say ‘going up to London’. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/39 "2021-01-12T17:35:18Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > What’s the largest US municipality in which “Main Street” is the (or maybe even just “a”) principal commercial street or main thoroughfare? Main Street in Queens is nowhere near the most prominent street in New York City, but it’s still a major commercial thoroughfare for much of its length. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2021, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278/40 "2021-01-12T17:53:58Z")
Here in Anderson, Indiana, w/ about 60,000 people, Main Street is the dividing line between east and west address numbers. Main is between Central Ave. and Meridian St., just to make sure you know you’re in the middle of town. I read somewhere that the US has more 3rd Streets than any other street name. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uptowns-and-high-streets-instead-of-downtowns-and-main-streets/930278.md?page=3)