# Urban fantasy books that AREN'T Harlequin romances with magic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [July 22, 2010, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603 "2010-07-22T14:50:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/41 "2010-07-23T01:02:16Z")
Gah, I just lost a fairly long post. Well, to sum up, thanks for starting this thread **jsgoddess** , because I too like urban fantasy IN THEORY but have zero interest in romance novels, whether they have magic or not. It seems like the urban fantasy subgenre used to be “grittier”, but at some point in the past decade or so morphed into basically just a variety on the romance novel. Everything I’d recommend has already been mentioned. I did want to second or third the suggestion of Tim Powers, though. He’s written stories with both modern and historical settings. I have a few complaints about him as a writer (I don’t think his dialogue is very good), but he is AMAZING at working fantasy/horror elements into a well-researched real world setting. I’d particularly recommend _The Anubis Gates_, which is an urban fantasy period piece – it’s set mostly in early 19th century London. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > _The Stress of Her Regard_ treads over the Sexay Vampire line a bit, but the rest don’t come anywhere near it. I do want to clarify for anyone who has not read this book that _The Stress of Her Regard_ makes it plain that the vampiric beings are destructive monsters. Humans are drawn to them, but there are terrible consequences to involvement with one and nothing resembling a real romance is even possible. The attention of one of these beings is a kind of curse, hence the title. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > For me he was the opposite. I really enjoyed his books at first, but the more I read of them, the less convinced I was that he knew what real people were like. Something about them just doesn’t sit right with me at all. He seems like he’d be a great guy in person, but I have no desire to read any more of his books. This is pretty much how I feel about de Lint. I really liked the first book of his that I read…then I read a couple more and sort of went “Bleh”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/42 "2010-07-23T01:46:31Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > the Ilona Andrews “Kate Daniels” books have way too much, "Oooh, he’s a sexy werebeast!! Oh god yes. Look, the team can write, but why the flaming hell does every single handsome dudes fall helplessly in lust with Daniels? After a while, it’s just too much. Even in the short stores, like the recent collection “Dark & Stormy Knights”. Charles de Lint has a new collection out. His stuff is not quite my cup of tea all the time, but it’s a good collection for new readers. Liz Williams= Det Inspector Chen sries Mark del Franco’s= Connor Grey series. Thomas E. Sniegoski’s= Remy Chandler series. Simon R Greens= Nightside series. Christopher Golden’s= Veil and other series. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/43 "2010-07-23T02:39:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > This is mostly older stuff, but Tim Powers wrote a lot of good “historical fantasies”, mostly in the 80s and 90s, where he’d weave a magical explanation in and out of actual historical events; _The Stress of Her Regard_ treads over the Sexay Vampire line a bit, but the rest don’t come anywhere near it. I love Tim Powers. > [@Paintcharge](#): > > [Matt Ruff’s](http://www.bymattruff.com/) “Fool on the Hill”, “Sewer, Gas & Electric”, and “Bad Monkeys.” And Matt Ruff. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/44 "2010-07-23T03:15:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh god yes. Look, the team can write, but why the flaming hell does every single handsome dudes fall helplessly in lust with Daniels? After a while, it’s just too much. Even in the short stores, like the recent collection “Dark & Stormy Knights”. Didn’t read the short stories, but I don’t remember every guy falling in love with her. Let’s see, there’s a disastrous date in the first book, which breaks up before anything happens; there’s Se… er, the shapeshifter guy, who’s a complete lech who’ll sleep with anything he can fit with and seems to want her because she keeps refusing him; and Curran, who has major control issues and likewise wants her because she doesn’t fall over swooning at his feet. Am I forgetting some? ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/45 "2010-07-23T04:32:16Z")
Another vote for Emma Bull. _War for the Oaks_ is a perennial favorite of mine, along with _Bone Dance_. Robin McKinley has a couple of urban fantasy titles. The best is _Sunshine_. _Dragonhaven_ was readable, but I thought it dragged a bit. _The Blue Sword_ is set more in British Empire/Victorian time period and not quite urban, but it’s definitely a mix of more “real world” with fantasy. If you’re willing to back up to 19th century/early 20th century settings, Caroline Stevermeyer’s _A College of Magics_ and _A Scholar of Magics_ are delightful reads. She partnered with Patricia Wrede to write a Regency urban fantasy, _Sorcery and Cecilia_. I believe there’s a sequel and a few others by Wrede in the same universe. Light, fluffy, and engaging. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/46 "2010-07-23T04:45:07Z")
Fritz Leiber is the Grand Old Man of urban fantasy. Francis Stevens arguably invented the “dark fantasy” genre. Thorne Smith could be classed as “suburban fantasy”. ---
**Author:** ![PookahMacPhellimey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pookahmacphellimey/32/3175_2.png) [@PookahMacPhellimey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PookahMacPhellimey)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/47 "2010-07-23T06:50:35Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Another vote for Emma Bull. _War for the Oaks_ is a perennial favorite of mine, along with _Bone Dance_. Emma Bull gets the phouka/pookah vote. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/48 "2010-07-23T10:55:38Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Another vote for Emma Bull. _War for the Oaks_ is a perennial favorite of mine, along with _Bone Dance_. And one more. I read Bone Dance in the library, then spent a couple of years looking for it, danced around the store when I found it (it’s ok, I’d already been a customer for decades and there’s a general assumption that anybody who’s ever had an account with them is nuts). It’s one of my bedside books. ---
**Author:** ![Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/49 "2010-07-23T13:35:16Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > [Thicker Than Water](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1841496561?ie=UTF8&tag=httpwwwgoodco-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=1841496561&SubscriptionId=1MGPYB6YW3HWK55XCGG2) is the fourth book in the Felix Castor series. It’s not at my library and I think maybe it’s not out yet in the US, though I’ve seen contradictory info. Amazon has this one and _The Naming of the Beasts_ in paperback now, although they’re $8.99. I’ve looked through my UF list, and everything you haven’t read has either romance or vampires. 🙂 The first few books of Rachel Caine’s Weather Warden series aren’t bad. There’s a romance, but it’s involving djinn, so it’s different, anyway. I like P.N. Elrod’s Vampire Files series. They’re murder mysteries set in Chicago in the 1930’s, featuring a vampire and a British PI. Oh, and you might like Tanya Huff’s _Summon the Keeper_ series, and her newest book, _The Enchantment Emporium._ Those are lighthearted, funny urban fantasy without vampires or werewolves. ---
**Author:** ![Meurglys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/258eb7/32.png) [@Meurglys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meurglys)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/50 "2010-07-23T14:07:59Z")
**China Mieville** ’s latest hardback, _Kraken_, is urban fantasy and one of the best books I’ve read this year. I enjoyed _Heart of Stone_ by **C. E. Murphy** recently, and although the romance element is definitely there, it’s not too overwhelming! ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/51 "2010-07-23T14:14:58Z")
> [@Eleanor\_of\_Aquitaine](#): > > I like P.N. Elrod’s Vampire Files series. They’re murder mysteries set in Chicago in the 1930’s, featuring a vampire and a British PI. Saberhagen’s Dracula stuff too. After all, when you are immortal you can help solve crimes for your “great grandchildren” in the modern day. I haven’t read them, but since he is a friend of mine, Kelly McCullough’s Webmage series might fit the bill. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/52 "2010-07-23T19:05:28Z")
I’ve been enjoying Cassandra Clare’s Mortal Instruments series. They’re teen books so they have some hormone-addled parts, but the main storyline is pretty well focused on the heroine coming into her maturity and her gifts. And there’s at least one shout-out to the author’s “Secret Diaries of Middle Earth” online. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/53 "2010-07-23T21:37:57Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I haven’t read them, but since he is a friend of mine, Kelly McCullough’s Webmage series might fit the bill. I have read them, and they’re great. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/54 "2010-07-24T00:22:53Z")
> [@Meurglys](#): > > **China Mieville** ’s latest hardback, _Kraken_, is urban fantasy and one of the best books I’ve read this year. Hot damn–I didn’t know it was out yet, and today’s my birthday, and I coulda asked someone for it! Well, shucks–I’m sure our library will get it eventually. I lurve Mieville. Nobody’s recommended his last book, **The City and the City** , yet; it’s more weird fiction than fantasy fiction, but given that the two main characters are both cities, it’d be fair to call it urban fantasy perhaps. In that same vein, **The Yiddish Policeman’s Union** might count as barely fantasy fiction but with a strong urban flavor. ---
**Author:** ![gang\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f07891/32.png) [@gang\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gang_green)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/55 "2010-07-24T01:15:48Z")
I’m not sure if these are “urban fantasy” because I probably have an imperfect understanding of the genre, but you can check out _[Deep Secret](http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Secret-Diana-Wynne-Jones/dp/0812575725/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279934230&sr=1-1)_ and _[A Sudden Wild Magic](http://www.amazon.com/Sudden-Wild-Magic-GollanczF/dp/0575601973/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279933770&sr=1-1)_ by Diana Wynne Jones. While there’s a love story in each of them, it’s definitely not your standard romance novel type. And is urban fantasy supposed to be gritty or something? I mean, the first one spends half the book at a science fiction convention, and I’m not sure how gritty you can make that. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/56 "2010-07-24T01:29:04Z")
> [@gang\_green](#): > > And is urban fantasy supposed to be gritty or something? I mean, the first one spends half the book at a science fiction convention, and I’m not sure how gritty you can make that. As far as I’m aware, it’s simply fantasy set in modern times. A frequent theme is the division between the mundane world and the supernatural as well as the transition a main character makes from one to the other. As for why it’s usually dark and gritty, whoever popularized the genre did so with vampires and werewolves and other things that come out at night. Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were an outgrowth of typical horror films, since horror usually involves a supernatural threat in a modern setting. Add to that the fact that large cities are popular locations for the genre (it being urban fantasy and all) and there’s a lot of similarities to noir fiction. Detectives are popular because their business is to ferret out secrets, which aligns well with discovering the supernatural. It doesn’t _need_ to be that way, of course, but that’s how it’s grown so far. Perhaps in the near future, when people eventually sicken of vampires, it may take a different turn. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/57 "2010-07-24T01:37:35Z")
It’s my recollection that a lot of '90s urban fantasy had nothing to do with vampires or werewolves but was “gritty” in the sense that the stories often involved homelessness, substance abuse, domestic and/or gang-related violence, and other more-or-less realistic big city social problems. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/58 "2010-07-24T01:41:33Z")
I think my Kindle is going to whimper when I turn wireless back on and let it get all the samples I grabbed… This thread is dangerous. 😃 So many new recommendations! ---
**Author:** ![gang\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f07891/32.png) [@gang\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gang_green)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/59 "2010-07-24T01:50:40Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > As far as I’m aware, it’s simply fantasy set in modern times. A frequent theme is the division between the mundane world and the supernatural as well as the transition a main character makes from one to the other. Oh, well, then. Diana Wynne Jones is good for that. Not all of her stuff is set in present-day or even normal real life, but some are. And she’s a favorite of mine, so the more attention she gets, the better. And I see she has a new HC out. Temptation! I’m trying not to buy more books! ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/urban-fantasy-books-that-arent-harlequin-romances-with-magic/547603/60 "2010-07-24T04:45:37Z")
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