# Uri Geller and spoons? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892 "2016-05-16T04:27:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/61 "2016-05-16T19:54:18Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > If you recall, the reference was to previous threads about this subject. > > See those threads for the facts I presented. No, I won’t be doing that. I wouldn’t even know where to start looking in those threads and I don’t fell like reading them in their entirety for likely-disappointing results. > [@](#): > > I’m attempting to fight your ignorance, which is the whole point of the message board. Start by demonstrating that our ignorance exists. > [@](#): > > Also, a point that the pseudos never understand. Their actions are counter-productive and damaging to real sceptics. They tell lies about dowsers/ psychics/ Uri geller/ etc in the belief that it will help to discredit them. But their lies are transparent and fool nobody. It is real sceptics that are hurt by this behaviour. > > Also, if you read factually wrong information here, and then go repeating it you just might end up getting sued. As such, it is my duty to to correct factual errors. > > Is that reason enough? Your concern is touching, but I’ll take my chances. Geller is a fraud. If he wants to pursue legal action against me, let him try. Dowsers are frauds, though I’ll admit that some (maybe most) genuinely believe they have powers. That doesn’t make what they do real. And psychics don’t exist, because psychic abilities don’t exist. If you think I’m wrong, prove it. If you think I’m working from faulty reasoning, demonstrate it. I’ll remain happily sceptical in the meantime. I gather you wish to classify me as a “pseudo sceptic.” That’ll have to remain your terminology, not mine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/62 "2016-05-16T19:59:53Z")
Geller the lying fraud has sued people before, and it usually hasn’t turned out too well for him, so I’m not too worried about it. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/63 "2016-05-16T20:02:58Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And psychics don’t exist, because psychic abilities don’t exist. If you think I’m wrong, prove it. And there we go again, same old argument. If someone objects to your faulty reasoning then accuse them of believing in psychic abilities. You know better than that, Bryan, you really do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/64 "2016-05-16T20:16:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > They are only errors in your mind. > > It’s also trivial nit-picking even by your standards. post #51-The errors are in your posts, not my mind. Where _are_ you getting that number from in the re-writing of your _original_ question? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/65 "2016-05-16T20:19:04Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And there we go again, same old argument. If someone objects to your faulty reasoning then accuse them of believing in psychic abilities. > > You know better than that, Bryan, you really do. Yes, I do know better, which I why I recognize your fallacy - I’m not accusing you of believing in psychic powers, I’m inviting you to prove that I’m wrong in _not_ believing in psychic powers, if you can. What is the supposed flaw in my reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/66 "2016-05-16T20:56:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > post #51-The errors are in your posts, not my mind. Where _are_ you getting that number from in the re-writing of your _original_ question? Okay, you got me. I went back and checked. The original comment to which I responded, actually said £1 Million, not $1 Million. I remembered wrong. It’s pounds, not dollars. Well done for spotting that. Satisfied? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/67 "2016-05-16T20:58:36Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Okay, you got me. I went back and checked. The original comment to which I responded, actually said £1 Million, not $1 Million. I remembered wrong. It’s pounds, not dollars. > > Well done for spotting that. > > Satisfied? What comment are _you_ talking about? At least I posted the one I was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/68 "2016-05-16T21:07:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What comment are _you_ talking about? At least I posted the one I was referring to. Check his entire posting history, it’s in there somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/69 "2016-05-16T21:09:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Check his entire posting history, it’s in there somewhere. Oh, you pseudo, you! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/70 "2016-05-16T21:11:40Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, I do know better, which I why I recognize your fallacy - I’m not accusing you of believing in psychic powers, I’m inviting you to prove that I’m wrong in _not_ believing in psychic powers, if you can. What is the supposed flaw in my reasoning? So, let’s see: 1. You don’t believe in psychic powers 2. You are not saying I believe in psychic powers 3. you are, nevertheless, demanding that I prove your disbelief to be wrong. Do you really not see the flaw? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/71 "2016-05-16T21:22:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What comment are _you_ talking about? At least I posted the one I was referring to. post #42 gave a story about Geller charging £1 Million for dowsing. I responded to that post with a request for a cite. I did not repeat the words “£1 Million” in my post. Nevertheless, it was asking for a cite for the £1Million claim. Your accusation that I’m wrong, or that I changed my question, is based on YOUR misunderstanding. And what a complete waste of time discussing it. Despite your accusations, the error was yours and also trivial. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/72 "2016-05-16T21:27:33Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > So, let’s see: > > 1. You don’t believe in psychic powers > 2. You are not saying I believe in psychic powers > 3. you are, nevertheless, demanding that I prove your disbelief to be wrong. > > Do you really not see the flaw? Really? Yes, the flaw is that you’re saying I’m wrong but simultaneously acting as though I’m wrong when I say you’re saying I’m wrong. Get your act together, already, or at the very least, describe in clear and direct terms what the nature of your objection is. And, actually, it’s perfectly possible for someone to have a correct conclusion but to have reached it though invalid reasoning, i.e. “psychic powers are fake because Jesus says so!” ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/73 "2016-05-16T21:38:02Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Yes, the flaw is that you’re saying I’m wrong No, I’m not. You keep accusing me of that, but I’m not. You don’t believe in psychic powers. In all probability you are not wrong. I don’t think you are wrong. So why are you asking me to prove you wrong? It’s a demand that makes no sense whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/74 "2016-05-16T21:40:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And psychics don’t exist, because psychic abilities don’t exist. Yeah, it’s bad luck to believe in stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/75 "2016-05-16T21:49:00Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Fair enough, but the specific question I asked is: did any company really pay him $1M to dowse? The specific question you asked is, “Cite that he has ever really charged for dowsing? Oh, he tells stories about his dowsing exploits. That’s just part of his performance. I don’t see evidence that he has actually done so.” Which is what I attempted to answer by showing that he does, in fact, charge for dowsing instruction. And remember, he’s the one making the claim. If you wish to suggest that he’s simply lying, well, it’s certainly possible that people are stupid enough to pay a celebrity psychic for nonsense like this. I got held up with traffic one day, and the reason was the road crew working on the street had a lane blocked off, and they had a man dowsing while maybe a dozen people and some earth movers stood by. So professional people do, in fact, put stock in Geller’s brand of hucksterism. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/76 "2016-05-16T22:00:11Z")
\*\* > [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > No, I’m not. You keep accusing me of that, but I’m not. You don’t believe in psychic powers. In all probability you are not wrong. I don’t think you are wrong. > > So why are you asking me to prove you wrong? > > It’s a demand that makes no sense whatsoever. So… I’m _not_ a pseudosceptic in your view then, apparently. Or, in your view, being a pseudosceptic is _not_ a negative thing, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/77 "2016-05-16T22:04:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The specific question you asked is, “Cite that he has ever really charged for dowsing? Oh, he tells stories about his dowsing exploits. That’s just part of his performance. I don’t see evidence that he has actually done so.” > > Which is what I attempted to answer by showing that he does, in fact, charge for dowsing instruction… But I was replying to post#42 which mentioned Uri Geller charging £1 Million. My question specifically asked for a cite for that particular claim. Your link, while interesting, does not answer the specific question I asked. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/78 "2016-05-16T23:36:32Z")
That information that originally was quoted from the Wiki article: > [@](#): > > By the mid 1980s Geller was described as “a millionaire several times over”, and claimed to be performing mineral dowsing services for mining groups at a standard fee of £1 million.[22] In June 1986 the Australian Skeptic reported that Geller had been paid A$350,000 and granted an option 1,250,000 Zanec shares at 20c each until 5 June 1987.[23] came from a book by Jeffrey Mishlove titled “The Roots Of Consciousness”, according to the attached footnote that was there for all to see. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/79 "2016-05-17T01:24:48Z")
Did something change, or are we not supposed to discuss certain topics and people with a certain person in this thread because he’s a bit obsessive? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892/80 "2016-05-17T13:10:47Z")
Just read dropzone’s post. I thought that rule had been lifted, since a certain person in this thread wasn’t supposed to discuss Randi at all and we weren’t supposed to bait/encourage him. Mods, can you clarify so we can respond? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/uri-geller-and-spoons/754892.md?page=5)