# US Aid to Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [October 2, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624 "2022-10-02T22:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/81 "2022-10-04T18:00:33Z")
Please clarify what you mean by that ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/82 "2022-10-04T18:17:05Z")
If you are saying things that have happened, you certainly aren’t doing them in _this_ thread, so I presume you must be doing it in some other thread. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/83 "2022-10-04T18:21:15Z")
Clever. Well, everything I have said is reported. Please note that this thread was merged with another, so it looks like I created a thread called “Is the US responsible for Russia’s invasion” That was the work of the moderator staff, I was only replying to a thread about acceptance of refugees ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/84 "2022-10-04T18:56:44Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > But the announcement of it, for the entire world to see? Absolute power move If a guy learns that some gang is planning to come to the center of town and start blowing stuff up, I don’t know that I’d describe it as a “power move” to try and notify everyone and publicize the coming attack. I think the hope would be that the group see everyone preparing to kick their asses and decide to not go forward with their plans. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/85 "2022-10-04T19:00:55Z")
But then you give him advanced weapons and he ends up obliterating the gang. There are really too many of these hypotheticals in this thread, I think. 2 great power nations, 1 saw a chance to weaken the other. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/86 "2022-10-04T19:04:28Z")
The US isnt “a guy” it is the most powerful nation on earth and it doesnt tend to act morally. It just so happens that this time, morality and practicality can coexist. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/87 "2022-10-04T19:11:53Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > But then you give him advanced weapons and he ends up obliterating the gang. That would fall under the heading of “kick their asses” yes. In general, choosing violence is a poor way to keep your own health. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/88 "2022-10-04T19:13:17Z")
One saw a chance to illegally invade another, at great human and monetary cost. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/89 "2022-10-04T19:19:36Z")
I will unpack this. Obviously, they didn’t think it would cost a lot. They were under the impression that Ukraine would be an easy mark. Illegal means nothing if nobody enforces the law. They were wrong on both counts, of course. What point is being made? ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/90 "2022-10-04T19:22:02Z")
Putin is the type to keep going until he hits that wall, I think. We have all met people like that ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/91 "2022-10-04T19:27:41Z")
I don’t think I have personally met anyone who assassinates enemies and invades countries, no. I think trying to normalize his behavior and/or trying to play it down is doing your point a great disservice. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/92 "2022-10-04T19:33:13Z")
What do you think my point is ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/93 "2022-10-04T19:38:32Z")
Well, I did request that the moderators change this thread title. I never said anything like what it suggests. It really does poison people’s opinions of me, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/94 "2022-10-04T19:45:38Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > Right, nobody should expect the the small countries of eastern europe to absorb 10s of thousands of Russian refugees. **The US can, and should. We (our government, anyway) had a hand in creating this situation.** -bolding mine- Okay, assuming all are speaking in good faith, this is where everyone keeps disagreeing with you @WellHelloThere. This statement you made earlier, even if you keep dancing around it, says that the US is not just (as stated earlier in the thread) taking Russia down a peg due to the existing situation. Sure, as pretty much everyone agreed, the US, NATO and other powers are keeping Ukraine in a position to fight due to the massive material support and intelligence gathering, but that’s a far cry from creating the situation. We can discuss lots of measures about your other points (US realpolitik, UN and treaty norms, etc), but you’re going to have to stop dancing around your unsupportable earlier point. Unless you have some evidence rather than insinuation. Yes, this thread was created with a less than stellar title when it was broken off due to the hijack, but your statements very easily support such a title being applied. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/95 "2022-10-04T19:47:26Z")
I said, the US had had a hand in creating Russian refugees. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/96 "2022-10-04T19:49:42Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > I said, the US had had a hand in creating Russian refugees So you have asserted. But see, you really going to have to expand on this with more detailed argumentation and if necessary to prove the points, cites. Because I personally cannot grasp what you are arguing the U.S. has done to create a refugee situation. Warning the world Russia was about to invade the Ukraine did not create the refugee situation. Arming and backing Ukraine did not ultimately create the refugee situation in any reasonable sense. The war created the refugee situation and Russia, unprovoked, created the war. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/97 "2022-10-04T19:50:09Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Did you see how short that Ukrainian skirt was? Shameless, I tell you. [![](https://assets.vogue.com/photos/58918d1cfb0604bf1f5c3df2/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/01-ukrainian-dress.jpg) ](https://assets.vogue.com/photos/58918d1cfb0604bf1f5c3df2/master/w_1600%2Cc_limit/01-ukrainian-dress.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/98 "2022-10-04T19:53:09Z")
I think we might just disagree as to how far responsibilty goes. I think a lot of the posters here have that disagreement with me. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/99 "2022-10-04T19:54:11Z")
Some people have said smart things, in reply ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/100 "2022-10-04T19:56:14Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > I said, the US had had a hand in creating Russian refugees. Well then, I say “You’re wrong.” That’s the level of debate you’ve provided so far. Saying that the US predicted Russian aggression, that the US is materially supporting Ukraine, and that there are Russian refugees is all correct. NONE of it = creating it. Until you provide support for your assumption, we’re not able to let your bare, unsupported statement stand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624.md?page=6)