# US Aid to Ukraine **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [October 2, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624 "2022-10-02T22:36:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/101 "2022-10-04T19:56:36Z")
Do you think Ukraine had a hand in creating Russian refugees? ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/102 "2022-10-04T19:58:33Z")
In a literal sense, yes. It isnt a moral judgement ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/103 "2022-10-04T20:00:07Z")
Maybe you missed where a mod invented a thread for me and named it whatever he felt like ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/104 "2022-10-04T20:02:35Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > In a literal sense, yes. It isnt a moral judgement Well then, this is easy. I live in this world. Evil things happen in this world. Therefore I bare (some) responsibility for those evil things. Therefore the US, and @WellHelloThere and everyone else is responsible. Everyone is responsible for everything, and thus no one is responsible for anything. An interesting point of view for philosophy, in the morally dead sense, but at least we’re done. As for the reasons the thread was split, it was to prevent a hijack according to the note. As for the title, I think it fine in light of your statement that I quoted. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/105 "2022-10-04T20:25:38Z")
Well I guess you really trapped me or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/106 "2022-10-04T20:29:16Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Therefore I bare (some) responsibility Please warn us first. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/107 "2022-10-04T20:34:59Z")
I think that’s dumb. The only responsibility lies with those who started, and continued, the invasion - the leaders of Russia. Not the ones they attacked. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/108 "2022-10-04T20:37:02Z")
I think it’s dumb too. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/109 "2022-10-04T20:40:20Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > the US had had a hand in creating Russian refugees. There was a group of Russians who left because of sanctions, to be sure. Given that Russia has been able to keep its economy together and that the people in Russia are all still watching TV, Telegram, etc. going shopping, and so on, I think it’s reasonable to say that the sanctions were successfully targeted principally at reducing Russia’s ability to build more weapons of war and to punish the elite who are helping Putin to execute the war. But, certainly, over time there will be larger ramifications as smartphones start to die and they can’t be replaced. The people who left were the ones who were smart enough to realize this and financially secure enough to go somewhere else. I wouldn’t be opposed to helping these ones out, financially, but I don’t think they need it very much. They’re generally going to be STEM workers. For the new wave of refugees - people who are afraid of being drafted - I don’t think that’s reasonable to pin on the USA. Sure, we’re helping Ukraine to defend itself and it’s Russia’s failure that’s leading them to have to draft people in, but ultimately that was their decision to initiate violence. But I think that we should help the refugees and I expect that we will. If a guy is thrown into jail for breaking into his neighbor’s house, his family might have lost the breadwinner. That’s his fault, not the police and not his children’s. The family should be helped. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/110 "2022-10-04T20:58:46Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Please warn us first. I earned that snark! So since @WellHelloThere seems to feel that the thread is about the much more worthwhile talk about responsibility to the refugees, and has not provided any evidence that the US has any more than the same negligible responsibility any other world citizen has, I have a better idea. Since both China and India are (arguably) providing more direct support to the aggressor (Russia) via ongoing active trade, while not having to provide any financial or military support to the victim (Ukraine), they have both the moral and financial duty to provide safe haven for all the refugees, no? They’re profiting by this action, while not contributing to the solution. Would this not be the most equitable situation? ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/111 "2022-10-04T21:08:03Z")
We are in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/112 "2022-10-04T21:13:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Plus, the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal was all planned by Trump. Biden didn’t have the authority to unilaterally change the international agreements Trump made. It wasn’t disastrous. Pretty smoothly done, despite a rough day or two. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/113 "2022-10-04T21:29:01Z")
So since the title of the thread has changed @WellHelloThere, here is your change to fully explain what you mean, in detail, and the arguments supporting it. Consider it a chance to start fresh without all the confusion. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/114 "2022-10-04T21:42:55Z")
The US has provided decisive aid to Ukraine. They did not do it because it was the right thing to do. I do have a bad track record with citations, but anyone that knows anything can agree with my main points ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/115 "2022-10-04T21:49:29Z")
Talk about why the US gave aid to Ukraine, I guess. I don’t know, I did not actually start this thread. It was a spin off ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/116 "2022-10-04T21:51:22Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > The US has provided decisive aid to Ukraine. Yes. > [@WellHelloThere](#): > > They did not do it because it was the right thing to do. They did not do it _only_ because it was the right thing to do, agreed, but so what? Absolute altruism is a philosophical ideal, it arguably does not exist in the real world. So, since the first is inarguable, and the second is simple unless we go off topic into debating the nature of altruism, I don’t suspect we have much to talk about. After all, we’ve talked about the practical, political, and moral reasons to assist Ukraine in depth in other threads. You could ask @What_Exit to close it if you like. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/117 "2022-10-04T21:51:41Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > They did not do it because it was the right thing to do. I believe it was the right to do. Any other points? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/118 "2022-10-04T21:51:48Z")
**Modnote** : Major hijacks get spun off. Now stop complaining about it. You don’t have to respond to any post, but you do have to stop with the complaints in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/119 "2022-10-04T21:52:08Z")
Got it ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624/120 "2022-10-04T21:54:57Z")
I think it just happened to be the right thing. And suddenly people are all about it [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-aid-to-ukraine/972624.md?page=7)