# US-Americans, I Pit you! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 4, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745 "2020-11-04T13:49:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/81 "2020-11-04T20:46:40Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Lots of voters are concerned with all sorts of stuff- they just don’t prioritize social justice and eliminating racism over all else. That doesn’t make them hateful or racist, just that they prioritize things differently. > > I mean, just because someone is really hung up on say… abortion and voting Republican, it doesn’t also mean that they’ve got a pointy white hood in their closet as well. It might well mean that they did a lot of soul-searching and decided that voting Trump is the rightest of a bunch of bad choices Since this is the Pit, I can say that I don’t think the people yelling “fake news” and “lock her up” are doing any soul-searching. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/82 "2020-11-04T20:49:09Z")
Probably not, but I also don’t think that those folks are representative of half of the country either. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/83 "2020-11-04T20:51:27Z")
BBC has just posited a huge caveat to this pitting of the US citizenry, I wonder if more informed Dopers would clarify. Apparently there are significant numbers of votes in sealed boxes in various states. This is apparently due to a challenge made by the Senate to the Supreme Court that votes arriving after the ballot period should be held to one side and not counted in case there is legal challenge as to the validity of those votes despite being postmarked as delivered prior to the polling end time but arriving after the poll itself had closed. It has been pointed out that individual States and even down to counties may have slightly differing rules on when votes can be counted, however there seems to be no current official challenge in place about votes that have already been counted. Democrats have apparently pointed out that the postmaster general himself may well have committed felonious acts by delaying the delivery of correctly submitted votes, and by interfering with the delivery of mail which - of itself - is a felony and this delay of itself is in breach of SCOTUS rulings which is also a felony. So it seems to appear there are two possibly significant reserves of postal ballots that have not started to be counted, the USPS delays and the SCOTUS set aside postal ballots These votes currently lying dormant would significantly favour Biden since all measures on the postal ballot have already demonstrated this. Perhaps - and this is speculation - the opnion polls are actually far more acurrate than is currently given credit and that these missing votes are the reason those opinion polls seem to be out. Does any of this have the potential to affect votes for the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/84 "2020-11-04T21:01:46Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Democrats have apparently pointed out that the postmaster general himself may well have committed felonious acts by delaying the delivery of correctly submitted votes, and by interfering with the delivery of mail which - of itself - is a felony and this delay of itself is in breach of SCOTUS rulings which is also a felony. Whether he committed a felony might seem debatable. But doesn’t it seem odd that, since a few months ago, it takes almost a week for a certified letter to reach the other side of town? At least in Eugene it does. Not that anyone’s deliberately trying to slow down the mail, perish the thought! ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/85 "2020-11-04T21:13:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > _Agreed on the point that there are a number of Hispanics who voted for Trump, and while I am disappointed by that number, I will note that it is still a very strong majority who did not. I certainly would not throw the 60+% out due to the actions of the \<40%._ It should be noted that most of the Hispanics who voted for Trump are Cuban-Americans and they’ve always been on the right side of the political spectrum. That’s why Trump’s red-baiting of Biden was so effective getting them to the polls. (I wouldn’t be surprised if he also secretly promised them he’d launch a “Bay of Pigs II” if they supported him.) That said, the current depiction of the Hispanic voting block in the media is overly simplistic and inaccurate. People of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican descent (along with the other immigrants from Spanish-speaking countries) differ so considerably in terms of history and politics that should be regarded separately rather than classed together. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/86 "2020-11-04T21:20:11Z")
I agree that there are big differences. But does anyone know what happened with the Hispanic vote in Texas? Last night it sounded like pundits were saying that a lot of them went for Trump, which I found difficult to believe. Maybe I misunderstood something. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/87 "2020-11-04T21:32:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I think you’re making this a binary issue, when it’s not necessarily so. It is a binary issue though. Had a choice between a moron that doesn’t give a shit about anyone but them self, or an intelligent person that would work to help the country and everyone in it. It’s a totally binary choice. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/88 "2020-11-04T21:33:23Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > These votes currently lying dormant would significantly favour Biden since all measures on the postal ballot have already demonstrated this. > > Does any of this have the potential to affect votes for the Senate? Yes in theory that is true, but it depends on the numbers. I think in Michigan as the vote goes on, the Democrat is doing better. And in Georgia if the Republican falls below 50% there would be a runoff. And North Carolina hasn’t been called yet, although the Republican is ahead. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/89 "2020-11-04T21:38:14Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I mean, just because someone is really hung up on say… abortion and voting Republican, it doesn’t also mean that they’ve got a pointy white hood in their closet as well. No, it means that they enable and look the other way when the pointy hoods and nazi armbands come out. > [@bump](#): > > By the same token, someone could be voting Democrat for environmental/climate change reasons without giving half a shit about social justice or racial issues. This is true. But, if someone is voting for Democrats for environmental reasons, they are also aware that their vote also enables anti-discrimination policies. > [@bump](#): > > In large part, it’s a consequence of having only two parties, and a lot of issues, and every person’s fit isn’t 100% with one party or the other. No, but you do have to make a choice at some point as to what your priorities are. If you are willing to accept fascism in order to impose your will upon others, then you are embracing it. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/90 "2020-11-04T21:50:14Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, but you do have to make a choice at some point as to what your priorities are. If you are willing to accept fascism in order to impose your will upon others, then you are embracing it. Mind you, these are the people who think Joe Biden is a supporter of extreme socialist anarchism. Their ability to understand what certain patterns of action or expression entail is not exactly fine-tuned. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/91 "2020-11-04T21:54:22Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > BBC has just posited a huge caveat to this pitting of the US citizenry, I wonder if more informed Dopers would clarify. Could you post a link to the BBC article? From my cursory look at their landing page, it seems to be lost in the welter of material on view. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/92 "2020-11-04T22:25:43Z")
ETA: I did try the search window, but still couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/93 "2020-11-04T23:05:33Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Well, why didn’t you convince the moderators to let you control what people post in your thread? You were too lazy and you failed to change their minds. […] > And since we’re in the Pit, fuck you. I thought it was frowned upon in this forum to hijack, even in the Pit, so I objected to it. Seems to have worked so far 😀 But yeah, fuck me. Because whatever. Might even enjoy it. Funny thing is that reading your post you seem to be more on my side than on the opposite side, but fuck me nonetheless. Perhaps in my next OP I should Pit myself (is that allowed?). I can’t control other people, I can only control what I do (not always). I accept the facts, if Biden has eeked out a narrow victory that is better than a defeat. Let’s see and hope. But I had hoped for more and I am disappointed. _You_ have disappointed me. So I Pit you US-Americans, your politics, the Electoral College, your shennanigans and divisiveness and I stand by it. nm ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2020, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/94 "2020-11-04T23:46:44Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yeah, they sided with the virus over humanity because they thought it would hurt the liberals. > > And it does, as it impacted the liberal areas of the country pretty hard, as those are the areas where people live closer together, and disease is easier to transmit, but it also doubly harms the liberals because the liberals care even when it is the conservative who dies from a preventable pandemic. > > They literally killed themselves in an attempt to pwn the libs. How can we compete with that sort of hatred? As I told my daughter, as long as it results in “sweet, sweet liberal tears,” everything else is, at worst, breaking eggs to make an omelet. ---
**Author:** ![ZurBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/71e660/32.png) [@ZurBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZurBob)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/95 "2020-11-05T00:49:52Z")
Ya know guys, despite the logic presented upthread, the truth is that appx. 50% of Americans disagree with this, and that is the shame that I feel the OP is referring to.That is what I find heartbreaking. Hence, in my estimation, we’re truly a nation of a near majority of idiots… subject to world wide ridicule, deserving of any and all ridicule hoisted upon us by others. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/96 "2020-11-05T00:57:10Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > But I had hoped for more and I am disappointed. _You_ have disappointed me. I hoped for more and I’m disappointed too. But this strikes me as blaming all of Europe for allowing Brexit to happen. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/97 "2020-11-05T07:59:03Z")
**U** ninterested : 1/3 can’t be bothered to vote **S** elfish: 1/3 are single issue voters: Whatever their excuse (guns/god/abortion… who cares?) They just want someone to stick it to the those uppity n###s. **A** rrogant: 1/3 don’t understand the deplorable other 2/3s and couldn’t care less. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/98 "2020-11-05T08:17:40Z")
And your answer strikes me as if you are adopting one of their tactics: whataboutism. As stated above it is a very effective tactic if you want to rile your adversary, as there is mostly a grain of truth to be found somewhere and debunking the major part of it that is not an accurate comparison is tedious. It is not useful at all inasmuch as no one is ever convinced, you can’t convince people by making them angry, but if anger is the point, whataboutism is great. That’s why I think the tactic, though easy to learn, should best be left to the rightwingers. It is more in character, I believe. When a leftie uses it I always interpret it like he is shouting: “touché”. Now for the tedious debunking (I`ll try to keep it short and I hope you see what I write tongue in cheek): Brexit came before Trump’s first term, it took us by surprise. It was cheated, manipulated and lied (you could have learnt from that too). It hurts them more than us. Might be a good deterrent for others in the future. Perhaps it is not so bad after all, might break up the UK and we might get the good parts (eg. Scotland) back. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/99 "2020-11-05T13:19:53Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > And your answer strikes me as if you are adopting one of their tactics: whataboutism. If it came across that way then I wasn’t very clear. I have no intention of blaming the rest of the EU for the actions of those in GB who voted for Brexit. It’s not their fault, they didn’t vote for Brexit. It was intended to show why your pitting is misguided. I’m not sure why you’re blaming the Americans who worked hard opposing Trump but weren’t as successful as we hoped. It looks like we may have succeeded in winning the Presidency and holding the House, but there are a lot of Americans who think differently than us. It’s a hard task convincing them otherwise. If you have suggestions on how to better convince approximately 48% of Americans to vote otherwise I’d like to hear them. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2020, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745/100 "2020-11-05T13:45:59Z")
I don’t see PL’s post as blaming those who worked hard so much as wondering why the fuck there are so many Americans who could vote for someone who is so obviously unfit for office. There is something seriously, malignantly wrong with a society in which 47-48% of voters could vote for a pathological liar whose own lies and actions have literally led to the deaths of thousands of people needlessly. There was a time when I would say “Okay, but not all Americans think that way.” But there’s just no excusing ourselves now. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-americans-i-pit-you/924745.md?page=6)