# US & Arab Media: Losing Hearts and Minds High on the Hobby Horse **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 28, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445 "2003-07-28T15:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/41 "2003-07-30T12:13:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo \* > \*\*Have you had any feedback as to how the locals have perceived this chap? Sounds like he might be capable of making long overdue and sustained “good impression”. \*\* I don’t know, haven’t had the opp to discuss. He was good though, polished presentation in Arabic (bit of an Egyptian accent in MSA but that’s my prejudice not a real liability), respectful sounding. Not sure how long he’s been on the job, first time I’ve seen him. But as mentioned, I don’t watch 24/7, so. Now, this is precisely the face we need to present - this guy was a bit on the young side, it would be nice to have some greybeards to appear on talk shows, that would really be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/42 "2003-07-30T12:32:45Z")
Being young might be a good thing actually. If he stays in the gig for a decade or more, he could really impregnate himself in a very meaningful way across a wide range of demographics throughout the entire region. Sounds like he’s an asset not to be squandered actually. Indeed, as you’ve pointed out in the past Coll, an awful lot of the disconnect between the USA and the MENA region has been caused by a total lack of Arabic speaking Americans. After all, there’s something inherently arrogant in expecting all of Arabia to be capable of speaking English. Certainly, when I was a racing cyclist in France in the mid 80’s - I was expected to be relatively fluent in French - regardless of whether my French companions were totally fluent in English. It was an etiquette thing with hindsight. It was the fact that I was making the effort that counted. Out of interest, what did he have to say regarding the bodies of the Hussein brothers? Anything memorable? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/43 "2003-07-30T12:38:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Boo Boo Foo \* > Being young might be a good thing actually. If he stays in the gig for a decade or more, he could really impregnate himself in a very meaningful way across a wide range of demographics throughout the entire region. Arab culture favors a bit of grey at the temple to be taken more seriously. Not that I’m dinging the man (I will write his name down next time I see him), but it is a cultural reality. > [@](#): > > Sounds like he’s an asset not to be squandered actually. Indeed, as you’ve pointed out in the past Coll, an awful lot of the disconnect between the USA and the MENA region has been caused by a total lack of Arabic speaking Americans. After all, there’s something inherently arrogant in expecting all of Arabia to be capable of speaking English. Or all of the MENA region. Saudi has piss poor English skills actually. > [@](#): > > Certainly, when I was a racing cyclist in France in the mid 80’s - I was expected to be relatively fluent in French - regardless of whether my French companions were totally fluent in English. It was an etiquette thing with hindsight. It was the fact that I was making the effort that counted. Even though most people I do business with speak English perfectly well, I have a world of advantages being able to switch over to their language, as well as follow the side bars. > [@](#): > > Out of interest, what did he have to say regarding the bodies of the Hussein brothers? Anything memorable? Working from memory here - I was making myself dinner with the TV in the background - I believe he indicated that after atopsies etc. are finished that the bodies would be handed to the family - tribe. To be frank I only partly caught that part, and now I’m a bit hazy on recalling whether he phrased it as a possibility or a definate statement. He also addressed several questions in re Sadaam (using the phrase “if he’s alive” - come now… but what the heck). ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/44 "2003-07-30T16:18:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fang \* > \*\*… Unless it is a mindless government-run propaganda rag like Pravda, the US needs to have a presence in Arab media outlets, rather than childishly claiming that those outlets aren’t “fair” to us… \*\* I think you are applying unnecessary limits here. Even “Pravda” could be extremely useful. I will never forget the day when an interview with Reagan was published in “Pravda” and what impression it made throughout USSR. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/45 "2003-07-30T16:45:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > \*\*And sorry, but there are testemonies of people who lived tehre and who described the almost ridiculous force used to storm that house. Without warning to the people living next or across or whatever. \*\* Dear Aldebaran, That’s the American way. Many patriotic, Bush-loving, flag-waving US citizens that ever had a misfortune to run into however remotely serious scuffle with US police can attest to the random and unpredictable brutality of such encounters. Get used to it. We still prosper. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/46 "2003-07-31T02:51:03Z")
**Collounsbury** : > [@](#): > > my dear ill-informed purveyor of bigotry…What on earth are you blithering on about?..come up with it, else fuck off. [Moderator Hat ON] That is quite enough. You have had multiple warnings since your return, and I must conclude you cannot abide by our request to tone things down. Goodbye. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/47 "2003-07-31T03:03:32Z")
What a dreadful shame for mine. Coll is a good guy. People enjoy baiting him. He enjoys dismissing them. I’ve seen that all my life. It’s no big deal for mine. But if you engage him with respect he treats you in kind - this cannot be denied. If you ask good, valid questions - his answers are wonderfully generous, and often, quite profound. And also he gives some wonderful quotes and insights. A dreadful shame. Fare well in your travels, Coll. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/48 "2003-07-31T03:57:01Z")
I second ‘Boo Boo Foo’. I’m new here, but ‘Collounsbury’ made a rather favourable impression on me so far. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/49 "2003-07-31T05:03:25Z")
_Sigh_ I can’t blame the mods but I am sorry to see Coll go yet again. ``` Why this all-or-nothing approach to banning? Why not have temporary bans (which is what I have seen on other forums)? While the mods do need to send a message to a rude poster I don't think personal attacks warrant a permanent ban especially when a poster has so much to contribute otherwise. ``` Coll, If you are still reading this, I really suggest you start your own blog. It probably won’t take any more of your time as compared to posting here and you can get your views out without the aggravation of flaming contests. I think the blogosphere could really use someone with your background and knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/50 "2003-07-31T06:49:11Z")
Bah, Collounsbury’s been banned for a trifle: a lapse of patience with one of the many who decide to attack his credibility using nothing better than the kind of empty gesticulating crap we see posted above by Alan Owes Bess. Well what do you expect from the man when he is one of the VERY few people with the will _and_ the ability to slap down much of the idiocy around here? It’s not easy suffering ignorance, particularly if you are well-informed, and it also not easy having one’s credibility slandered by the clueless as often as happens to Coll. Let the wilful fools and the deliberate trolls who can work the system stay, but kick out a poster who is most effective at eliminating egregious nonsense and dogged ignorant insistence. With due respect, when it comes to Collounsbury the admins of this web site seem to be having serious problems recognizing and emphasizing the SMDB’s best assets: 1) knowledge and 2) the ability to deliver that knowledge in the face of bias, misinformation, and plain old ignorance. Are we fighting ignorance by eliminating (in these freaking times!) our best source on socio-economic-political aspects and points of view of MENA? Quite the opposite. You’ve just made life that much easier for the usual suspects, who will now be able to spread their uninformed bias without the obstacle of Collounsbury’s stopping power. I realize Coll was, strictly speaking, in breach of the rules, but (as I have suggested before) perhaps it’s time to tweak those rules to apply to the **bad** seeds at the SDMB. No doubt a reduction in the latter’s ranks would give people like me more chances to exercise patience, and Collounsbury too I am sure. Collounsbury should be readmitted to the boards pending an apology for his very minor breach. I also draw your attention to C’s “incriminating” words: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Collounsbury_ > **If** you have something to add other than hand waving references to “English translations on the net” then come up with it, **else** fuck off. My emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/51 "2003-07-31T09:37:46Z")
Oh bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/52 "2003-07-31T09:51:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Abe \* > \*\*Bah, Collounsbury’s been banned for a trifle: a lapse of patience with one of the many who decide to attack his credibility using nothing better than the kind of empty gesticulating crap we see posted above by Alan Owes Bess. Well what do you expect from the man when he is one of the VERY few people with the will _and_ the ability to slap down much of the idiocy around here? It’s not easy suffering ignorance, particularly if you are well-informed, and it also not easy having one’s credibility slandered by the clueless as often as happens to Coll. > > Let the wilful fools and the deliberate trolls who can work the system stay, but kick out a poster who is most effective at eliminating egregious nonsense and dogged ignorant insistence. With due respect, when it comes to Collounsbury the admins of this web site seem to be having serious problems recognizing and emphasizing the SMDB’s best assets: 1) knowledge and 2) the ability to deliver that knowledge in the face of bias, misinformation, and plain old ignorance. > > Are we fighting ignorance by eliminating (in these freaking times!) our best source on socio-economic-political aspects and points of view of MENA? Quite the opposite. You’ve just made life that much easier for the usual suspects, who will now be able to spread their uninformed bias without the obstacle of Collounsbury’s stopping power. I realize Coll was, strictly speaking, in breach of the rules, but (as I have suggested before) perhaps it’s time to tweak those rules to apply to the **bad** seeds at the SDMB. No doubt a reduction in the latter’s ranks would give people like me more chances to exercise patience, and Collounsbury too I am sure. > > Collounsbury should be readmitted to the boards pending an apology for his very minor breach. I also draw your attention to C’s “incriminating” words: > > My emphasis. \*\* What he said. If people insist on parading their stupidity in the face of facts and informed opinion they should expect some minor roasting. And how about dealing with December’s endless trolling (I refuse to believe anyone is actually that out of touch with the world)? ---
**Author:** ![Desmostylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/53 "2003-07-31T10:10:06Z")
I too, am a trifle disgusted by this. **december** posts drivel that is far more insulting, intellectually, than **Coll** ’s purported insults. Way to go on the “fighting ignorance” front. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/54 "2003-07-31T11:31:31Z")
> [@](#): > > my dear ill-informed purveyor of bigotry…What on earth are you blithering on about? > Provide me with the actual words and the context, and _perhaps there is a response._ > If you have something to add other than hand waving references to “English translations on the net” then come up with it, else fuck off. Except for the “my dear” part, could’ve been **manhattan** ’s. There’s some room to believe that the “ill-informed” and “bigotry” parts are factually correct. Blithering is a value judgement of the poster’s post, not the poster. “fuck off”, while redundant, wasn’t a personal insult. Ther’re others who deliberately quote others out of context with crucial words missing and engage in various deliberate attempts to bait fellow posters, while bringing nothing whatsoever to the conversation but invective. I’d like to see the rules interpretted in such a way as to bring heat on these other sorts as well. But, I’m not a mod nor an Admin, so that’s really neithere here nor there. I am saddened at the board’s loss of **Col**. A casualty in the War on Ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/55 "2003-07-31T12:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Abe \* > \*\*Bah, Collounsbury’s been banned for a trifle: a lapse of patience with one of the many who decide to attack his credibility using nothing better than the kind of empty gesticulating crap we see posted above by Alan Owes Bess. Well what do you expect from the man when he is one of the VERY few people with the will _and_ the ability to slap down much of the idiocy around here? It’s not easy suffering ignorance, particularly if you are well-informed, and it also not easy having one’s credibility slandered by the clueless as often as happens to Coll. > > Let the wilful fools and the deliberate trolls who can work the system stay, but kick out a poster who is most effective at eliminating egregious nonsense and dogged ignorant insistence. With due respect, when it comes to Collounsbury the admins of this web site seem to be having serious problems recognizing and emphasizing the SMDB’s best assets: 1) knowledge and 2) the ability to deliver that knowledge in the face of bias, misinformation, and plain old ignorance. > > Are we fighting ignorance by eliminating (in these freaking times!) our best source on socio-economic-political aspects and points of view of MENA? Quite the opposite. You’ve just made life that much easier for the usual suspects, who will now be able to spread their uninformed bias without the obstacle of Collounsbury’s stopping power. I realize Coll was, strictly speaking, in breach of the rules, but (as I have suggested before) perhaps it’s time to tweak those rules to apply to the **bad** seeds at the SDMB. No doubt a reduction in the latter’s ranks would give people like me more chances to exercise patience, and Collounsbury too I am sure. > > \*\* I disagree. The biggest drag on civil debate over here in GD was Colls. Just because you happen to agree with him dosen’t make what he did acceptable. Good riddance, about time and kudos to Gaudere. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/56 "2003-07-31T12:55:26Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] Discussion of administrative actions belongs in the BBQ pit, not GD. Please move this discussion there. Thank you. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/57 "2003-07-31T13:45:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gaudere \* > \*\*[Moderator Hat ON] > Discussion of administrative actions belongs in the BBQ pit, not GD. Please move this discussion there. Thank you. > > [Moderator Hat OFF] \*\* [Dons hopefully bullet- and fire-proof vest] With all due respect, **Gaudere** , I think the discussion of this case \*\*does \*\* belong here, because it closely parallels the debate spawned by the OP - i.e., the validity of the power-that-be censoring media that appear contrary to them (or in our own case - moderators “censoring” posters who have gone awry of board rules). The consensus in the first debate appeared to be (I didn’t follow that closely) that it is wrong to shun usage of a “contrary” medium to convey a message to its followers, that it is not smart to ignore the POV it is presenting as it normally represents that of a large following, AND _that it is wrong to try to “influence” them (the medium and the followers) to toe our line through any sort of pressure or coersion._ I suggest the same is true for **Collounsbury**. His over-stepping of the rules, while real, WAS relatively minor (akin the the “mild anti-Americanism” attributed to Al-Jazeera _et al_ on the thread before all hell broke loose). I would not suggest that the opinion voiced in the OP should apply to blatently “America-bashing” media, nor that really obnoxious posters should be allowed to spew here unchecked, BUT I think that hearing **Collounsbury** out, and through him perhaps better understanding POV’s other than our own, carry advantages far greater than the gain received by banning him (and please note my location - I am no fan of his general views! But I think he must be heard) - just as I agree that viewing, and appearing on A.Jaz. and similar stations is IMPORTANT to American foreign policy. Ignore them and they most assuredly **will not** go away. OK, sorry to contradict a direct request to _cease and desist_ by a mod:eek:, but the parallel was just too striking to overlook (and I addressed the original OP! Must get me some brownie points too, no?;)). And who will connect from here to a pit thread on the subject anyway? [Takes vest off - tries to run away. You won’t shoot me **in the back?**] ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/58 "2003-07-31T13:55:03Z")
[ASSHAT ON] KAPOWWWW ! [ASSHAT OFF] ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/59 "2003-07-31T14:50:48Z")
[Moderator Hat ON] No, discussion of Coll’s banning does NOT belong here. Discussion and complaints re adminstrative decisions go in the BBQ Pit, period. You can post a link to a pit thread re Coll’s banning, and then all interested posters in this thread will know to go there (most of them know that already, and there is already a thread re Coll in the Pit), but further discussion in the wrong forum will just get this thread locked. [Moderator Hat OFF] ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2003, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445/60 "2003-07-31T15:32:34Z")
[A verse for Collounsbury](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=201393) invites you to submit a ditty, ode or quatrain on **Col** ’s demise, reflect on the Modmins’ decision, and perhaps even attempt to badger them into readmitting him on a **Pit** -only basis. I suspect it will soon closely resemble the thread discussing his [original ban](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=147549). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-arab-media-losing-hearts-and-minds-high-on-the-hobby-horse/191445.md?page=4)