# US assassinates commanding general of Iran Quds force **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821 "2020-01-03T02:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/221 "2020-01-04T12:06:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I am listening to Trump saying the name “Sollamainee” over and over again. Is this the correct pronunciation? I think Neil Diamond came [closer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csh6wVWmLyc). ---
**Author:** ![Pedro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/919ad9/32.png) [@Pedro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/222 "2020-01-04T12:12:07Z")
There is no doubt this is casus belli. Which is of course not in the Iranian regime’s best interest. The only appropriate response by Iran would be to assassinate a US General in Iraq. Followed by the inevitable accusations of terrorism by the US. This imminent threat justification is just WMDs all over again. North Korea’s notebook on why they need nuclear weapons just keeps getting longer and longer. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/223 "2020-01-04T12:27:12Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I’m not sure this was a mistake. Trump is perceived by the world as erratic and capable of almost anything. When a guy like that is in control of one of the most powerful military forces you don’t want to piss him off. > > I suspect Iran will threaten and posture but won’t retaliate in any significant way. I wouldn’t be so sure. They must retaliate, because that is the logic of these things. But they will want to avoid an escalation, as a military exchange of blows would be deadly for many in the regime. And if Trump personally gave the order to fire a Hellfire from a Reaper they will want to make the retaliation personal. I would worry if I was Ivanka, Donald Jr. or Eric. Not so much if I was Melania. And there is a lot of mischief they can do by proxy: all the militias Iran controls in Lebanon, Jemen, Iraq, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Libya… etc. etc. I hope it does not spiral out of control. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/224 "2020-01-04T13:41:26Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No explosions overnight. No smoke from the refinery this morning. So far so good. I hope you stay safe. Can’t you fake some illness/family situation and get the fuck out of dodge? Preferably before the explosions? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/225 "2020-01-04T13:41:40Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Having plans–even well-thought-out plans–is one thing. Competently executing them is an entirely different kettle of fish. > > I strongly suspect that Quds does not have anybody of sufficient caliber to execute those plans as well as Soleimani could have done. If so, then taking him out makes as least tactical sense, because the damage under anybody else would not be as severe as under Soleimani himself. To assume that there’s nobody in the chain of command who would have the competence or know-how of Soleimani is probably a miscalculation. They’d lack the experience at the helm for sure, but it’s not as a successor would be completely in the dark about how to run the kinds of operations that Soleimani and his #2 did. It’s not some rag-tag group of radicals running around from hillside to hillside and cave to cave; it’s an organized militia that’s funded and otherwise supported by a regional nation-state power. I find it hard to believe that this blow is as crippling as the news reports are making it out to be. I’m sure it will shake things up in the near term, but over time, they will regroup and do what they’ve been doing for decades. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/226 "2020-01-04T13:57:07Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No explosions overnight. No smoke from the refinery this morning. So far so good. I hope you stay safe. Can’t you fake some illness/family situation and get the fuck out of dodge? Preferably before the explosions? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/227 "2020-01-04T14:04:52Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > In the US I think Trump’s instincts are, correctly IMO, that a full-scale war will not help him politically. He would prefer to go into the election with a decent economy and a country at peace. Have you not seen the tweets Trump sent out several years ago where he predicted that Obama would try to start a war with Iran to help with his re-election? I think Trump views war as a boon to his campaign. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/228 "2020-01-04T14:04:53Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > I strongly suspect that Quds does not have anybody of sufficient caliber to execute those plans as well as Soleimani could have done. If Soleimani was a commander of any caliber at all, he’d have a well-trained and well-briefed chain of command capable of executing the plan. One would expect that after heading an international terror organization for 20 years, losing staff fairly frequently, he’s gotten fairly good at that. Check out [this WaPo article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/01/03/when-united-states-qasem-soleimani-worked-together/) showing some insight into his thought process. Here is part of a text message from Soleimani to David Petraeus in 2008: > [@](#): > > “you should know that I, Qassem Suleimani, control the policy for Iran with respect to Iraq, Lebanon, Gaza and Afghanistan. And indeed, the ambassador in Baghdad is a Quds Force member. The individual who’s going to replace him is a Quds Force member.” This is a man who thinks about succession quite a bit, and has a deep bench of talent to replace him. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/229 "2020-01-04T14:07:33Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Would you care to take a bet on whether you are right? Perhaps you hadn’t read the new rules for GD and P&E, Ravenman, but betting is now specifically disallowed. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/230 "2020-01-04T14:43:11Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I wonder what Trump’s military advisors think of this. I’m sure that Stephen Miller is fuckin’ _ecstatic_. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/231 "2020-01-04T15:24:28Z")
Pence is on the case, lying about [DEL]WMDs in Iraq[/DEL] Suleimani helping “10 of the 12” 9/11 hijackers. This is just straight up gaslighting – first, there were 19 hijackers, second Iran would have no interest in helping Sunni terrorists. More debunking here: > **[Pence Links Suleimani to 9/11. The Public Record Doesn’t Back Him. (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/us/politics/pence-iran-factcheck.html)** > > Vice President Mike Pence claimed that Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani of Iran assisted “10 of the 12 terrorists who carried out the September 11 terrorist attacks.” Pay walled, for those who don’t subscribe or know how to clear cookies. Here’s a good quote: > [@NY Times Article](#): > > By 2001, General Suleimani had already been named the head of the Quds Force, the powerful security branch that often coordinates with other terrorist groups worldwide. Yet General Suleimani was not named at any point in the “9/11 Commission Report.” > > In fact, the report states in no uncertain terms that neither the Iranian government nor Hezbollah, a group that General Suleimani worked closely with, ever knew anything about the attacks or helped facilitate them… Much more in the article. Pence is lying his ass off here, in a much more obvious way than Cheney did about the WMDs and Iraq’s connection to 9/11 (always careful to never state anything definitively). So, anyone willing to defend his lies and gaslighting on this very serious subject? ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/232 "2020-01-04T15:30:49Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > It has been argued that WWI and WWII were one single conflict interrupted by a 21 year truce. And WWI was viewed highly skeptically in the US in the interwar period, often as a case of the US having been maneuvered by the British into a war that was not its concern and with no sharply defined good and bad guys after all. The European view of the US view of WWI is often ‘why would the US public care that much about a war that cost the US such a small fraction in lives as it cost us? (and BTW you Americans claim a much larger role in that war than is justified)’. But in this tangent we’re discussing the US view, the pop history theme ‘the US was so successful in wars especially up to the big one, WWII, but can’t get it right ever since’. But actually there was a mixed record of achieving ‘permanent’ victory that was ‘worth it’ in US wars prior to WWII, and WWI is not the only example. WWII, or the feeling about it, here at the end of the era of ‘Greatest Generation’ veneration in the US, is perhaps more the exception than the rule in US case. And considering all other countries and wars the % of ‘victory that was worth it’ is not high, as every ‘victory that was worth it’ meant a defeat for somebody else, even given the odd cases of wars which tend to be viewed as successes on both sides (like the War of 1812 generally viewed favorable in the US, while Canadians have a fantasy that their country actually existed then and ‘won the War of 1812’ :); to Brits, who the US actually fought in that war, it’s very minor among all their many wars). ‘War is waste’ as Sherman said so you’d expect with objective rationality most wars to eventually be viewed as not worth it taking the average of both sides’ view. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/233 "2020-01-04T15:44:37Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > (like the War of 1812 generally viewed favorable in the US, while Canadians have a fantasy that their country actually existed then and ‘won the War of 1812’ :); to Brits, who the US actually fought in that war, it’s very minor among all their many wars). The US wanted to end up with a piece of what is now Canada, and obviously failed. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/234 "2020-01-04T15:57:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > To assume that there’s nobody in the chain of command who would have the competence or know-how of Soleimani is probably a miscalculation. . To assume anything as a certainty in such a case would be incorrect. However the example was given before of the ‘assassination’ of Yamato in April 1943 (I’ll leave any difference in supposed legality between that case and this one to the internet legal experts). The US decision makers explicitly considered not only the feasibility of that attack but whether Yamamoto might be succeeded by a more or less capable person, and were ready to forego the opportunity if it was likely to be a more capable person. Which though is hard to judge even in full hindsight. Yamamoto’s successors as CinC Combined Fleet were relative non-entities in history, Koga killed in an accidental plane crash in early 1944 then Toyoda who oversaw the disastrous battles of Philippine Sea and Leyte Gulf. But lots of other factors were piling up against the IJN in that period besides who happened to be CinC Combined Fleet. There’s no way to know if Yamamoto’s performance in the later phase of the war would have superior to those two men in anything like proportion to how much bigger his fame is now, or what difference it would have made. But US intel might indeed have a particular idea if the IRGC really has a ‘deep bench’, rather than just assuming _that_, as some posts seem to. I would hope it’s not publicly revealed for many years what US intel (probably significantly aided by allies) knows or think they know about the IRGC, which would point to how they know it. Nobody has to agree with an action like this. But I tend naturally not to take a strong view on this of kind of thing in the moment. There’s a lot I don’t know, and no way to conduct an effective war/near-war foreign policy if the public, and therefore the adversary, has all the information US decision makers do. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/235 "2020-01-04T15:59:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The US wanted to end up with a piece of what is now Canada, and obviously failed. The ‘US’ having previously taken a piece of ‘Canada’ from the French in the Seven Years War. Except the US didn’t exist then as a political entity. That was the British. Just like Canada did not exist as a political entity in 1812. The Seven Years War (French and Indian War) was between Britain and France in North America, not the the US or US/Canada v France. The War of 1812 was US v Britain, not US v Canada or Canada and Britain. Every country has its silly mythology, even the oh so rational and even tempered Canadians, the example being their fantasy about ‘Canada’ fighting in the War of 1812.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/236 "2020-01-04T16:13:09Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Except that Loser Donald has surrounded himself with the same cabal of neocon hawks who’ve been champing at the bit for an excuse to invade Iran for _decades_, and they know how to manipulate him into doing it. > > All they have to do is fill his head with “Wars like this are easy to win” and “Obama never had the courage to invade Iran”. It’s already begun. My MAGA Facebook friend, who is our window into the right-wing meme machine, has already posted a picture of a grinning Trump with the caption “I just notified Iran that Obama is no longer in charge.” ---
**Author:** ![l0k1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@l0k1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/l0k1)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/237 "2020-01-04T16:13:19Z")
Since we’re on an 1812 tangent, I love how completely unheroic the Fort McHenry chapter of the Battle of Baltimore is. The British Navy shelled the defenders until, they got bored and went home. The Star Spangled Banner is about people cowering until the shelling stopped (and about taking revenge on re-enslaved people), super heroic guys. The Battle of Baltimore is the war of 1812 in a nutshell. The British eventually get bored, and decide to call it a day, the US declares victory. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/238 "2020-01-04T16:31:32Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Under most rules of war _I_ can think of, bumping someone off while in a state of peace is called “murder”. And since when is Iran an adversary ? Or Iraq a fucking active war zone ? Against whom ? Have you been asleep since 2003? ---
**Author:** ![Hillmanhunter1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ea924/32.png) [@Hillmanhunter1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hillmanhunter1)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/239 "2020-01-04T16:34:30Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > **I read somewhere, can’t find it now, that the US did not know Soleimani was at the airport** and we were going after lower level targets. It was intended to be a one time strike as a show of force and that would be the end. Now it that were true, the question is now moot as Trump has said we were targeting Soleimani, and of course a mistake cannot be admitted. > > This makes sense to me, I do not believe Trump wants a war because a war is not going to help him get re-elected. Well, probably not. Who knows how the public will react if this escalates. Many will buy Pence’s bullshit. > > Question about the statement that Iran and Soleimani were planning major attacks against America? Any credibility to that? Why would Iran do that? What would be the objective? This is plausible. In a move that hasn’t been reported much in Western media the Foreign Minister of Qatar (a country that hosts a huge US airbase but also maintains a relationship with Iran) was quickly dispatched to Tehran within hours of the killing with a message from Washington. > **[Qatari FM to pay official visit to Iran's Tehran](https://menafn.com/1099506629/Qatari-FM-to-pay-official-visit-to-Irans-Tehran)** > > On Saturday, Qatari Foreign Minister Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani is scheduled to pay an official visit to Iran, according to the Iranian Foreig ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/240 "2020-01-04T17:25:05Z")
> [@Hillmanhunter1](#): > > This is plausible. In a move that hasn’t been reported much in Western media the Foreign Minister of Qatar (a country that hosts a huge US airbase but also maintains a relationship with Iran) was quickly dispatched to Tehran within hours of the killing with a message from Washington. > > [Qatari FM to pay official visit to Iran's Tehran | MENAFN.COM](https://menafn.com/1099506629/Qatari-FM-to-pay-official-visit-to-Irans-Tehran) A lot of things are plausible to outside speculators and armchair geo-political wonks. The quoted rumor that suggests the murder was an accident because the intended target was some lower level operative is something circulating within Iran as well. Iranians don’t wish to accept that the US would target such an important and popular Iranian figure. This may or may not be true. We won’t know until more information is released. Until then, every dignitary in the M.E. is on alert and involved in back channel communication on behalf of one party or another. This is about damage control for everyone in the region and outside the region to keep it from escalating out of control. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821.md?page=13)