# US assassinates commanding general of Iran Quds force **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821 "2020-01-03T02:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/481 "2020-01-07T01:45:07Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The thing which happened with the letter today is pretty simple: > > 1. You have military people following the book. “The book” likely said, in so many words, to obey the laws and withdraw peacefully, ala our withdrawal from France in '67. It’s a strange letter. It starts out, to paraphrase, saying “O great ones, I hear ye and I tremble!” And then immediately follows that with, “Hey, y’all, I’ll going to be moving my shit around, tidying up, don’t mind me!” If it weren’t for the beginning, I’d wonder if it wasn’t a letter written before the bombing that just took a while to arrive, that had nothing to do with anything. Plausibly, they just begin every letter with some form of obsequious statement of deference? It is the Middle East after all. It could just be a letter that was written to tell them, “We’re going to be doing some repositioning. Just so you know.” Because that’s what they were planning to do this week. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/482 "2020-01-07T02:20:08Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No, because if that’s true every American President has shot someone on 5th Avenue. I hate to be the one to break it to you but Obama murdered plenty of people with drone strikes. In fact, he ordered the killing of an American citizen unlike Trump. But I’m sure there’s a way to hand wave all that. Two things: Doesn’t this one seem to have a different character? And isn’t that kind of a tu quoque of an answer? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/483 "2020-01-07T02:34:40Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If it weren’t for the beginning, I’d wonder if it wasn’t a letter written before the bombing that just took a while to arrive, that had nothing to do with anything. Plausibly, they just begin every letter with some form of obsequious statement of deference? It is the Middle East after all. It could just be a letter that was written to tell them, “We’re going to be doing some repositioning. Just so you know.” Because that’s what they were planning to do this week. Nope, I tracked down a picture of the real thing. Dated today and explicitly mentions the pullout. > You’d have to be a complete idiot to send a letter saying that you’re pulling out your entire army from a nation, without complete and 100% approval from the top boss. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/484 "2020-01-07T02:40:59Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Two things: Doesn’t this one seem to have a different character? And isn’t that kind of a tu quoque of an answer? Yeah, it has a different character. This is a major impact killing internationally. But shake your head a bit here: isn’t killing an American citizen a whole hell of a lot closer to shooting a guy on 5th Avenue than killing a foreign military leader? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/485 "2020-01-07T02:52:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Under most rules of war _I_ can think of, bumping someone off while in a state of peace is called “murder”. And since when is Iran an adversary ? Or Iraq a fucking active war zone ? Against whom ? Pretty sure the GWB Admin argued that the entire world was now a combat zone when they were handling the Jose Padilla case. idk how that all finally played out ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/486 "2020-01-07T02:55:59Z")
Well, Al-Zawahiri had joined the enemy we were actively at war with. Treason, no? Punishable by death, though of course not via drone. But then he was also effectively an enemy combatant and subject to being blown up. Soleimani was only arguably an enemy combatant, and definitely not formally so. And his death is an assassination of a high level foreign national. So, two counts against Al-Zawahiri, maybe one against Soleimani. Joe Blow on 5th Ave is minding his own business buying a hot dog, zero counts. By this reckoning Soleimani is closer. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/487 "2020-01-07T03:01:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What if the Iranians play grown-up? Along the lines of “We are super-dooper pissed off, but we are restraining ourselves because the gravity of the situation is a big fat crazy American guy”. Be a hell of a thing, that kinda self control, so I gotta doubt it, But it would sure make us look like junkyard dogs, yes? What if it were targeted cyber attacks against Trumpco interests? No bloodshed, just Trumpco bleeding red ink. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/488 "2020-01-07T03:04:39Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, Al-Zawahiri had joined the enemy we were actively at war with. Treason, no? Punishable by death, though of course not via drone. But then he was also effectively an enemy combatant and subject to being blown up. > > Soleimani was only arguably an enemy combatant, and definitely not formally so. And his death is an assassination of a high level foreign national. > > So, two counts against Al-Zawahiri, maybe one against Soleimani. Joe Blow on 5th Ave is minding his own business buying a hot dog, zero counts. By this reckoning Soleimani is closer. Why in the world are you playing this game? An American citizen is due a trial. He was specifically targeted, not killed in a battle. You have blown all moral high ground, in my rather certain opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/489 "2020-01-07T03:17:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Why in the world are you playing this game? An American citizen is due a trial. He was specifically targeted, not killed in a battle. You have blown all moral high ground, in my rather certain opinion. Usually I would agree with you, but the sticky wicket in that case was that the dude had joined a terrorist army we were actively at war with. So it wasn’t an extrajudicial execution, it was attacking a known Al Qaeda terrorist. Arguably. The guy shooting up a Wall Mart deserves a trial too, but usually ends up shot to death by the cops. That isn’t considered an extrajudicial execution either. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/490 "2020-01-07T03:21:33Z")
> [@PatriotX](#): > > What if it were targeted cyber attacks against Trumpco interests? > No bloodshed, just Trumpco bleeding red ink. Except that Trumpco has no ink to bleed - and what ink he thinks he has he owes to Russia, which is Iran’s Ally in all of this. All roads from trumpco lead to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/491 "2020-01-07T03:24:05Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Usually I would agree with you, but the sticky wicket in that case was that the dude had joined a terrorist army we were actively at war with. So it wasn’t an extrajudicial execution, it was attacking a known Al Qaeda terrorist. Arguably. > > The guy shooting up a Wall Mart deserves a trial too, but usually ends up shot to death by the cops. That isn’t considered an extrajudicial execution either. More games. Cops killing someone who’s shooting up a Walmart is not like ordering someone’s death as a preemptive measure. Think I’m done with you for the day. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/492 "2020-01-07T04:05:04Z")
That’s your prerogative but I am not playing games. This is a life or death situation for a whole lot of people and it is worth chewing on all the angles. My principle here is the most uncomfortable questions to ask and answer are often the ones most worth addressing. A Trump defender will say America is in the business of blowing up terrorists. They might say it is consistent to blow up both Al-Zawahiri and Soleimani. I just want to grind down to the distinctions until I reach a degree of certainty. I apologize if I pissed you off. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/493 "2020-01-07T04:40:25Z")
When both Israel and Saudi Arabia fail to support a US action against Iran, then you know it must have been spectacularly stupid (if there was any doubt before). ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/494 "2020-01-07T04:42:06Z")
We all know that what they say they support, and what they actually support, could be too very different things. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/495 "2020-01-07T04:43:59Z")
You’re thinking of al-Awlaqi, the American. al-Zawahiri is Egyptian and still kicking. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/496 "2020-01-07T05:00:20Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > We all know that what they say they support, and what they actually support, could be too very different things. :rolleyes: Israel and Saudi Arabia are usually highly reluctant to criticise the US - especially over Iran, which they both hate. So when both of them send the US a diplomatic message to the effect that ‘you screwed up’ it means something. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/497 "2020-01-07T06:01:09Z")
Al-Awlaqi. Thanks for that. Anyway, to put the 5th Avenue thing to rest by just going with it, Trump may not lose support among the End-Timers, but when All of our international allies turn away from us, when his biggest fan base is literally demanding the Apocalypse, when thousands of innocent lives are in immanent danger from the threat of a potential war fomented directly by his unlawful actions, maybe the national interest would be better served by a different, more informed decisionmaker. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/498 "2020-01-07T06:39:52Z")
Here’s an interesting piece of information: **Soleimani was in Iraq conducting peace negotiations which Trump had requested.** [The reason Qassem Soleimani was in Baghdad](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/qassem-soleimani-death-iran-baghdad-middle-east-iraq-saudi-arabia-a9272901.html) > [@](#): > > Iraq’s prime minister revealed that he was due to be meeting the Iranian commander to discuss moves being made to ease the confrontation between Shia Iran and Sunni Saudi Arabia – the crux of so much of strife in the Middle East and beyond. > > Adil Abdul-Mahdi was quite clear: “I was supposed to meet him in the morning the day he was killed, he came to deliver a message from Iran in response to the message we had delivered from the Saudis to Iran.” > > The prime minister also disclosed that Donald Trump had called him to ask him to mediate following the attack on the US embassy in Baghdad. According to Iraqi officials contact was made with a number of militias as well as figures in Tehran. The siege of the embassy was lifted and the US president personally thanked Abdul-Mahdi for his help. > > There was nothing to suggest to the Iraqis that it was unsafe for Soleimani to travel to Baghdad – quite the contrary. This suggests that Trump helped lure the Iranian commander to a place where he could be killed. It is possible that the president was unaware of the crucial role that Soleimani was playing in the attempted rapprochement with the Saudis. Or that he knew but did not care. … > > Abdul-Mahdi spoke of his disappointment that while Trump was expressing his gratitude over the mediation, he was also simultaneously planning an attack on Soleimani. That attack took place not long after the telephone call from the president. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/499 "2020-01-07T07:23:34Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > Here’s an interesting piece of information: > > **Soleimani was in Iraq conducting peace negotiations which Trump had requested.** > > [The reason Qassem Soleimani was in Baghdad](https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/qassem-soleimani-death-iran-baghdad-middle-east-iraq-saudi-arabia-a9272901.html) Interesting. The most likely options would seem to be that, a) it was a trap, or b) the President has no real memory of who is who and forgot between the phone call with the Iraq PM and his military options briefing that he had just been talking about Soleimani a little while previous. I’d lean towards **b**. If **a** , though, I feel like that’s more advance thinking than Trump is capable of. He’s more the Jack Bauer type than the Batman. He screws everything up when he tries to plan ahead, but blasts his way through it to save himself in real time. This succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2020, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/500 "2020-01-07T08:34:40Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > I know Iran and Iraq are technically at war though tensions are high. And thereby you have show that you know jack shit, and should please stop announcing this fact t the world by posting here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821.md?page=26)