# US assassinates commanding general of Iran Quds force **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 3, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821 "2020-01-03T02:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/161 "2020-01-03T20:55:28Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s like if you had a board game without a victory condition- how do you win, and how do you lose in a situation like that? That is known as an Infinite Game. You are winning if you are playing. You have lost if you are not. There are no other outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/162 "2020-01-03T22:07:16Z")
I have a legit question. Given that Qud is a well-organized, deeply entrenched organization, how would taking out Soleimani be a pre-emptive strike? Qud has already named his successor, and if the planned attacks against US military personnel, etc., were already in place, how would Soleimani’s death pre-empt anything? I’m trying to understand the reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/163 "2020-01-03T22:13:23Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I have a legit question. Given that Qud is a well-organized, deeply entrenched organization, how would taking out Soleimani be a pre-emptive strike? Qud has already named his successor, and if the planned attacks against US military personnel, etc., were already in place, how would Soleimani’s death pre-empt anything? I’m trying to understand the reasoning. This is exactly my question, too. Soleimani had already developed the infrastructure to commit these planned attacks at any time of Iran’s choosing. How does taking out Soleimani prevent them occurring in any way? Seems to me that Iran has even more impetus to order attacks against Americans now than they had before, not less. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/164 "2020-01-03T22:21:29Z")
One possible explanation is that by taking out such a high profile target, the US is demonstrating that it not only has the power but the will to escalate, not just with sanctions but with military force. It also sends a message to the proxies as well: anyone’s a target. In the short run, yeah, it’s a strategy that could indeed intimidate Iran and its proxies and make them think twice about further escalation. But in reality, Iran is just going to expedite work on its nuclear weapons program, reach out (and probably get) more political support from Russia and China, and they will bide their time and work out what to do next. Iran’s character is not to let something like this go unanswered: they will fight back and there will be a further escalation. And depending on how desperate they feel their situation is, that escalation could be quite serious. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Sponge](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dark_sponge/32/121_2.png) [@Dark\_Sponge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Sponge)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/165 "2020-01-03T22:36:19Z")
I’m not sure this was a mistake. Trump is perceived by the world as erratic and capable of almost anything. When a guy like that is in control of one of the most powerful military forces you don’t want to piss him off. I suspect Iran will threaten and posture but won’t retaliate in any significant way. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/166 "2020-01-03T22:49:42Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I’m not sure this was a mistake. Trump is perceived by the world as erratic and capable of almost anything. When a guy like that is in control of one of the most powerful military forces you don’t want to piss him off. > > I suspect Iran will threaten and posture but won’t retaliate in any significant way. If this were true, we’d have been blowing up airports and assassinating brown guys since Jan. 2017 to make sure the whole world knew we were not to be fucked with, right? But we haven’t been. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/167 "2020-01-03T22:54:25Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I have a legit question. Given that Qud is a well-organized, deeply entrenched organization, how would taking out Soleimani be a pre-emptive strike? Qud has already named his successor, and if the planned attacks against US military personnel, etc., were already in place, how would Soleimani’s death pre-empt anything? I’m trying to understand the reasoning. It doesn’t. Or at least, there’s no reason we should take the word of a wholly dishonest administration about the reason for the strike. They’ve lied again and again; chances are they’re lying now. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/168 "2020-01-03T22:58:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s like if you had a board game without a victory condition- how do you win, and how do you lose in a situation like that? War isn’t about the narrow question of which military can beat the other military. It’s about achieving foreign policy goals. If we send the military on a campaign and they win every military engagement, yet we didn’t achieve our foreign policy, then WE lost the war. Not just the military, the entire United States. In Germany and Japan our goal was to completely pacify those nations. They now remain pacified because we did the work of rebuilding and partnering and forging alliances. But the United States lost Vietnam, we lost Iraq, we lost Afghanistan. It’s pointless to salve our ego by saying we threw better punches or had better form. All our foreign policy goals failed in those countries, or they led to other catastrophic unforeseen policy outcomes, so we simply lost. The criteria are perfectly clear. We lost because, in the run-up to war, we base our chances of success purely on the likelihood of destroying the other country’s military. Things will surely go our way once they have no tanks or airplanes! But it never goes that way. We’re doing it again, right now, here in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/169 "2020-01-03T23:08:05Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > I’m not sure this was a mistake. Trump is perceived by the world as erratic and capable of almost anything. When a guy like that is in control of one of the most powerful military forces you don’t want to piss him off. > > I suspect Iran will threaten and posture but won’t retaliate in any significant way. Trump is perceived in the world as a coward who will do anything to save his own skin. This is the absolute only way he’s been 100% predictable. Everyone also knows he’s terrified of the price of oil going up, that he’s terrified of high interest rates, that he’s terrified of incurring US casualties in war, that he’s terrified of having his misdeeds exposed. When confronted with strength, he always makes blustering threats and backs down. There’s nothing unpredictable about him except how he responds when faced with several things that terrify him about the same amount. This calculation isn’t going to work forever, but there’s no reason Iran shouldn’t expect it to continue working for them. They know they can’t win a war against the US, but they can inflict enough pain to make the US lose. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/170 "2020-01-03T23:35:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > War isn’t about the narrow question of which military can beat the other military. It’s about achieving foreign policy goals. If we send the military on a campaign and they win every military engagement, yet we didn’t achieve our foreign policy, then WE lost the war. Not just the military, the entire United States. > > In Germany and Japan our goal was to completely pacify those nations. They now remain pacified because we did the work of rebuilding and partnering and forging alliances. But the United States lost Vietnam, we lost Iraq, we lost Afghanistan. It’s pointless to salve our ego by saying we threw better punches or had better form. All our foreign policy goals failed in those countries, or they led to other catastrophic unforeseen policy outcomes, so we simply lost. The criteria are perfectly clear. Well, then, maybe we need better goals: how about, instead of leading off with talk about how we’re out “to completely pacify”, we helpfully declare at the start that we’re looking to smash their military and then, y’know, call it a day? > [@](#): > > We lost because, in the run-up to war, we base our chances of success purely on the likelihood of destroying the other country’s military. Things will surely go our way once they have no tanks or airplanes! But it never goes that way. That’s what I’m asking: can we say, in advance, that once their stuff gets smashed, that’ll be the indicator that things sure went our way? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/171 "2020-01-03T23:49:11Z")
Sure, for future conflicts, but you can’t use that as a post hoc rationale for “winning” Korea, Vietnam, etc as merely breaking things wasn’t the stated policy goals. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/172 "2020-01-03T23:50:48Z")
> [@Dark\_Sponge](#): > > … Trump is perceived by the world as erratic and capable of almost anything. … As evidenced by gatherings of world leaders that include the Donald, he’s the subject of ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/173 "2020-01-03T23:52:31Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That is known as an Infinite Game. You are winning if you are playing. You have lost if you are not. Speaking of, y’all have lost The Game. Again. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/174 "2020-01-03T23:55:58Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > War isn’t about the narrow question of which military can beat the other military. It’s about achieving foreign policy goals. If we send the military on a campaign and they win every military engagement, yet we didn’t achieve our foreign policy, then WE lost the war. Not just the military, the entire United States. > > In Germany and Japan our goal was to completely pacify those nations. They now remain pacified because we did the work of rebuilding and partnering and forging alliances. But the United States lost Vietnam, we lost Iraq, we lost Afghanistan. It’s pointless to salve our ego by saying we threw better punches or had better form. All our foreign policy goals failed in those countries, or they led to other catastrophic unforeseen policy outcomes, so we simply lost. The criteria are perfectly clear. > > We lost because, in the run-up to war, we base our chances of success purely on the likelihood of destroying the other country’s military. Things will surely go our way once they have no tanks or airplanes! But it never goes that way. We’re doing it again, right now, here in this thread. I don’t see any “goals” at all. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/175 "2020-01-03T23:57:22Z")
So much war-stopping and de-escalation happening tonight: > > [@](#): > > Iraqi security official tells @nbcnews there has been anther US airstrike, this one north of Baghdad targeting Shiite militia leaders. Reports of 6 killed. > This right BEFORE a big Shiite protest tomorrow in Baghdad. It seems certain to provoke an escalation. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/176 "2020-01-04T00:26:19Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The Iraq/Iran relationship is not as simple as ‘Allies’. There are large factions in Iraq that absolutely want the Iranian influence ended and Iran militias booted out of the country. Other factions are closely tied to Iran and welcome them. > > How this plays put probably depends on Iraqi internal politics. During Saddam Hussein’s tenure, he closed the border to Iranians, who have a yearly ritual which requires pilgrimage to Najaf and, I believe, Karbala. Iranians tend to be Shi’a; Hussein was Sunni. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/177 "2020-01-04T00:29:05Z")
Have there been any accusations that the impeachment process is an unnecessary diversion from this escalation of hostilities yet? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/178 "2020-01-04T00:32:47Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Killing Suleiman, accident or not, is an adequate retaliation for their attack on our Embassy. Let them think twice about unprovoked acts of aggression against us or our Allies. The Iranian government is not a popular one and some USA carrot and stick might pay off. This is only going to make the Iranian regime more popular. > [@jasg](#): > > Since Putin is facing term limits under Russian law, I find this bit interesting… > > Russia + Crimea + Belarus = New Soviet Union Or he could just swap places with Dimitry Medvedev for a term and rule the country from the Prime Minister’s office. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/179 "2020-01-04T00:37:22Z")
It is so strange, disconcerting actually, that I find myself rooting for Iran in all this. As weird as it makes me feel, and as irrational as I know it is, I suspect I’m not the only one having such a nauseating epiphany. One more reason Trump sickens me. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821/180 "2020-01-04T00:39:46Z")
For all of the speculation about the myriad ways in which Iran might retaliate, it seems the most obvious and easiest thing for Iran’s government to do for the moment is to destabilize Iraq and turn people against the US-leaning government. It would put pressure on Iraq’s government to step back from US support, and things get out of control, it would endanger the security for the 5000-6000 US troops still there, which could force the US out once and for all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-assassinates-commanding-general-of-iran-quds-force/845821.md?page=10)