Yeah, we just assassinated a foreign head of state in an ostensibly neutral country. I can’t blame someone if they want to call it terrorism or something similar.
But I think we should qualify it. Iran Did blow up a bunch of Saudi oil infrastructure recently. They shot down a US drone. And this now dead general Did fight a guerilla war against the US in the Iraq war.
If we had just blown up a Hungarian general at a Latvian airport, everyone would be asking, “Wtf did Hungary do to the US?!?!?” With Iran it goes back to 1979, maybe earlier with that nasty Shah business which one could argue places the blame for the bad blood between these nations squarely at the US’ feet.
Still. The question is whether terrorist strikes are justified? proportional? against a country that fights you and your allies via terrorism.
First, I see a bit of grim humor in this. Iranians basically instigated attacks on a US base and the Baghdad embassy. When Trump threatened consequences, the Iranian response was essentially “Ha ha. You can’t do anything.” I assume they regret that assertion.
The general was in a foreign country where attacks have happened against US assets. He has been instrumental in some of these attacks, and no secret he leads an organization identified as terrorist by the USA. Much as I think Trump is a moron and the semi-intelligent hawks around him are itching for a war, I see this as an appropriate response. It was an attack on a military person in the roughly defined “theatre of war”.
The Iranians are not stupid - they face the same dilemma they assigned to Trump “What can you really do?” They may step up the number and intensity of attacks, but it’s not anything they would have not been able to do before. If anything, haste may make such operations sloppy and help expose more of their operational organization.
Meanwhile, they are well aware that the dividing line is their border. Any attacks (missiles) launched from Iranian territory are an open invitation for the USA to attack Iran itself, which they have not done yet; neutralize those bases and any other assets that pose a risk to performing that task - flattening any Iranian military assets - missile bases, air force, navy, anti-aircraft, etc. Also, you can bet after the surprise attack on that Saudi oil facility, there are plenty of radar watching for launches. They don’t have to use ground forces - just flatten the government apparatus and let it collapse.
I know if I were Trump or the top generals, the areas where speedboats were a problem would be regularly patrolled for the next while and any craft from Iran too close to any vessel appropriately “warned” off.
This is the fruit of the seed that was planted on 9/11/01. This agenda, as laid out in the PNAC study at least 5 years prior to 9/11, is in full effect today. We have learned nothing in the past twenty years.
It’s not tit for tat, it’s an unprovoked attack by the US. Iran has no choice but to respond now.
The fact that they are trying to justify it by saying an attack by Iran was imminent, without any evidence shows its total bs.
Please people wake up, this is the same administration that on one hand says you can’t trust any intel when it comes to Trumps dirty dealings. CIA, FBI they are all deep state anti-Trump they say. Now that it is convenient for them we should just trust the intel No evidence, just trust us. An attack was coming.
The man’s got to do something while he’s waiting for the tank to refill between those 10-15 flushes.
Oh and now he’s broadcasting his military strike plans on Twitter, which is going to include “52 Iranian sites (representing the 52 American hostages taken by Iran many years ago), some at a very high level & important to Iran & the Iranian culture”
Very cool. Striking directly at Iranian cultural heritage is a really good way to show you’re not trying to provoke anybody or escalate anything. And violating OPSEC on Twitter… JFC I can’t even.
I think the message is not just a tweet; it’s potentially very revealing. We’re very clearly on the path to war with Iran, and at the same time it’s clear that we’re not preparing to occupy the country or rebuild it. That would suggest that the plan is to keep bombing Iran until the regime is gone. In kind, Iran’s regime will keep fighting hard, using any means at its disposal, to deter the U.S. and turn American public opinion against a war – one reason why I doubt that they would employ terrorism on American shores unless they felt that they had nothing left to lose. Terrorism against Americans abroad, against diplomats and US service members abroad? Oh yeah, I could see that for sure.
I meant that they won’t do that right away – the regime will hold off of terror attacks until they are all living in underground bunkers night and day.
If I may go back to being Alarmist Asahi for a moment, let’s not forget the domestic side of this crisis. This is something that Trump can use to declare an emergency under the right circumstances, and there’s not a doubt in my mind he’d try to expand presidential police power and his bootlickers in the Senate would support him.
All of us are following this discussion and treating it as a situation that’s happening on the other side of the world (which it is, of course). But past administrations and congresses have created the national security state, and the real constitutional crisis - much bigger than Trump and the GOP trading sovereignty in exchange for an election win - is bubbling up just beneath the surface now. An executive power grab is there for the taking: emergency measures that render the rule of law and democracy null as we know it. I can’t say for sure that it’ll happen, but I’m saying it’s there.
One truly disturbing development we’ve already observed and commented on in this thread is Mike Pence’s deliberately lying and conflating this crisis with 9/11. Pence and everyone else knows it’s a bald-faced lie. It shows that they are willing to lie to claim legitimacy in conflict. It also means that whatever repercussions they encounter - from the loss of military personnel, to the loss of civilian life, and to the collapse of public support - they are willing to lie and that they will only acknowledge those who profess their undying support for them. This is absolutely a Weimar moment, and we’re in it. Right now.
What we’re going to do is litigate the decades-old question, reiterated in this very thread, of why can’t we just bomb the fuck out of people we’re angry at, and call it a day.
It seems like the US and Trumpkins and MAGATs will not be satisfied until we actually try this and see how it goes. It’s desperately sad and disheartening, mainly because I think this tragic experiment will outlast the 9-year timeframe in which my kids might conceivably be drafted.
