# US athletes told not to wave flag at Olympics?? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636 "2004-05-17T17:34:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/21 "2004-05-17T20:37:49Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Forgive me, **tdn** , but I don’t see how that’s the point. These are amateur athletes, not politicians or Pentagon officials, who are going to represent us at the Olympics. I don’t see how the swim team has any say in national defense matters. I should probably reply to this as well. Our athletes are representatives of our country. They are our diplomats. They are the face of America. As are our soldiers. Bad behavior on their part reflects poorly on all of us. To many people, they _are_ America. You may say that those people, therefore, are idiots. That they can’t make the distinction between sports and politics. Indeed, you might be right. But consider this: When a typical numbnuts jingoistic American sees a French althlete do something – anything – do you think it’s unlikely that said American may, at some point, shout “cheese-eating surrender monkey” at the TV? If said French athlete pulls some dumbass stunt, do you think it will endear France to said American? Would it to you? Let me remind you that last year many Americans blamed fried potatoes for French politics. Fried potatoes, for Og’s sake! You think flag-carrying athletes will fare much better? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/22 "2004-05-17T20:57:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > Forgive me, **tdn** , but I don’t see how that’s the point. These are amateur athletes, not politicians or Pentagon officials, who are going to represent us at the Olympics. I don’t see how the swim team has any say in national defense matters. > > Should we flaunt victory in the face of our competition and say “Neener neener neener, we won!” No, of course not. But neither do I think that Team USA should act ashamed when we win, and slink off the field as quickly as possible, hiding the medals under our shirts. I think we should refrain from the obnoxious victory lap with the flag and accept our medals gracefully, on the stands, as programmed. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/23 "2004-05-17T21:07:33Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > I think we should refrain from the obnoxious victory lap with the flag and accept our medals gracefully, on the stands, as programmed. I thought this was tradition, that all gold medal winners did this. Is it not? If it is tradition, then will only Team USA be banned from celebrating a victory lap? What’s wrong with the lap anyway? It gives the spectators in the stand a chance to applaud as they run by. I think it also allows the athletes a chance to run off some adrenelin. I’m not saying there will be no moans and boos when the opposing team wins. That’s only natural, to want _your_ team to win. But to tie this to politics? I thought this was about the love and sport of the game. Color me naive, I guess, but I watch the Olympics to see our side win. And I’m not ashamed of that. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/24 "2004-05-17T21:13:06Z")
**ivylass** , did you click on **theR** ’s link and say, “that’s perfectly normal, acceptable and non-arrogant behavior”? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/25 "2004-05-17T21:17:39Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > I thought this was tradition, that all gold medal winners did this. Is it not? If it is tradition, then will only Team USA be banned from celebrating a victory lap? > > What’s wrong with the lap anyway? It gives the spectators in the stand a chance to applaud as they run by. I think it also allows the athletes a chance to run off some adrenelin. > > I’m not saying there will be no moans and boos when the opposing team wins. That’s only natural, to want _your_ team to win. But to tie this to politics? I thought this was about the love and sport of the game. Color me naive, I guess, but I watch the Olympics to see our side win. And I’m not ashamed of that. Like it or not, it IS political at this particular juncture. We are desperately trying to dig ourselves out of a deep, dark PR hole, and doing the victory lap with a flag flying over our heads will not reflect well on us. What’s wrong with a thrilled expression at the end of the race, and accepting the gold and waving to the fans? You shouldn’t be ashamed. Of course, everyone wants their team to win. And it _should_ be about the love of the game…I’m just saying it will be about more than that this year. Shit…we’ll be lucky if we don’t get booed. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/26 "2004-05-17T21:25:28Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > “…charm offensive…” 😕 Isn’t that some kind of oxymoron? Ready… Aim… Smile! ---
**Author:** ![Abbie\_Carmichael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/49beb7/32.png) [@Abbie\_Carmichael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abbie_Carmichael)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/27 "2004-05-17T22:09:28Z")
Has it crossed anyone else’s mind that maybe the US shouldn’t even bother with the Olympics this year? If our PR problem is as bad as “they” say it is, I have a hard time believing that foreign judges will give our people a fair shake when it comes time to hand out medals. Can they be trusted to divorce their feelings about the US and judge fairly, even if it means _gulp_ a capitalist pig American ends up with the gold? ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2004, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/28 "2004-05-17T23:33:39Z")
> [@Abbie Carmichael](#): > > Has it crossed anyone else’s mind that maybe the US shouldn’t even bother with the Olympics this year? > > If our PR problem is as bad as “they” say it is, I have a hard time believing that foreign judges will give our people a fair shake when it comes time to hand out medals. Can they be trusted to divorce their feelings about the US and judge fairly, even if it means _gulp_ a capitalist pig American ends up with the gold? Wouldn’t that have applied to the U.S.S.R. during the cold war, when most of the “free world” thought that the Russians were evil war-mongers? But they kept sending people to the Olympics, and winning a fair share of events. I don’t think isolationism will help our national image - especially when it looks like “I won’t WIN as much as (I think) I DESERVE, so I’m not going to play your stupid game”. On the contrary, I think that the more venues in which Americans can be seen acting like regular people - and regular people with talent and class - the better off we are. mischievous ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/29 "2004-05-18T00:06:22Z")
I support the decision. It’s not going to kill the athletes to have to behave with a little class and restraint. I can’t see what people get out trying to belittle other countries by waving a flag in their faces. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/30 "2004-05-18T00:31:15Z")
> [@](#): > > To the rabid Muslims in the streets of Mecca shouting “Death to Americans”, do you think it much matters? Why the hell should we care what a bunch of rabid Muslims think? It’s idiocy to pander to irrational people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/31 "2004-05-18T00:53:02Z")
If I were an athlete that had spent years of my life training to win an Olympic event and then won it, you bet your ass I’d take my victory lap with my country’s flag held high. This guy (from the link)\* "“What I am telling the athletes is, ‘Don’t run over and grab a flag and take it round the track with you.’”\* would just have to fuck off. It would by my victory, in my chosen sport, and my time to shine. Those who are ashamed of America or Americans would have my permission to not watch. I’ll also point out that people such as this may suggest certain actions, but except for illegal activities he certainly has no authority to enforce anything, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/32 "2004-05-18T05:00:08Z")
Perhaps Abbie is right. The US probably _should_ refrain from the olympics this year, then maybe the rest of the world will not hate us as much when we win an event. What obvious pandering nonsense. Athletes are braggadocious by nature, they live for the win, nothing else matters, and now, just because we’re the US, we should slink quietly off the field, prideless and humble? Bullshit. Personally, if I worked all my life for something so difficult to attain, and then, after all of my hard work and dedication, I actually achieve my goal, and beat the pants off of my competitors, you’re damn right I’m gonna be proud about it. We’re not belittling anyone by waving our flags, if we beat someone, we’ve done the belittling on the field of play, the rest is just pride in the job well done. I would expect nothing less from any athletes, no matter where they’re from. The victory lap, obnoxious? Indeed not. It’s a ritual of pride, again, at a job well done. Of course, all of these things can be taken to negative extremes, but frankly, I’d wonder about the robots who don’t celebrate their wins with a little in-your-face. FTR, I don’t give a tinkers damn what Muslims, especially the rabid ones, think about our athletes, if they don’t like it, they’re free to look away. About **theR’s** picture. I think that was perfectly fine behaviour, since they were POSING FOR A PICTURE. It’s exactly what I expect winners to do, they have no obligation to console the losers, they’ve worked hard, they’ve beaten their opponents, and IMO, if the losers don’t like it, they’re free to not compete next time. This kind of whining leads to kids t-ball, soccer, and football games where there’s no scoring allowed, “just play to have fun” but the kids inherently know who won and lost, the parents are just trying to make themselves feel better vicariously. It’s crap. Competition is a necessary function of American society, and one that’s altogether ingrained in our lives, it’d be a shame if a few crybabies were able to extinguish our fire, just because they were worried about how someone else might view us. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/33 "2004-05-18T05:15:13Z")
On one hand, I think it’s a bit silly for anyone with any position of authority in the Olympics to be concerned with this issue while allowing absolutely horrifying atrocities to occur every damn Olympiad _and_ taking it’s good sweet time restoring justice on the rare instances they even attempt to. (I say the Soviet Union is dead, they CLEARLY stole the '72 basketball gold medal…look at the facts of the case, it’s not even arguable…and the IOC should give it to America yesterday.) Not to mention the events that have turned into an international joke (boxing, anyone?). On the other hand, would it _kill_ these people to show a little class? The medal ceremony is supposed to be a serious, dignified occasion; anyone crazy enough to pose half-nude with the flag should get dragged out of the stadium by his ankles. I hardly think it’s a monumental, crushing sacrifice to **not act like a complete jerk for a few minutes!** Anywhich…I’m just praying that it works out and our contigent gets in and out of there unscathed. I’m sure most of them will gladly comply, but you just never know… ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/34 "2004-05-18T05:44:55Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > What obvious pandering nonsense. Athletes are braggadocious by nature, they live for the win, nothing else matters, and now, just because we’re the US, we should slink quietly off the field, prideless and humble? Bullshit. WHo in this thread, besides you and Lib, have said they must “slink off the field, prideless and humble”? I mean, would a little humility kill these fuckers before the roids kill their kidneys? > [@](#): > > About **theR’s** picture. I think that was perfectly fine behaviour, since they were POSING FOR A PICTURE. It’s exactly what I expect winners to do, they have no obligation to console the losers, they’ve worked hard, they’ve beaten their opponents, and IMO, if the losers don’t like it, they’re free to not compete next time. Umm, did you watch the Summer Olympics last time? Did you by any chance SEE the fucking event where the picture posted earlier came from? Obviously not, you’d understand that he didn’t “pose for a picture” like that. I wish I could find video of the event, because from my memory, the actions of the athletes were so over the top, so beyond the pale, that not even a moron like you could make excuses for them. Nobody except you wants the winners to concole the losers. Some of us would, however, like our athletes to act with a little bit of decorum. If our fucking cowboy president can’t, at least our non-political representatives like the olympians can. Sam ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/35 "2004-05-18T06:52:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yes, and let’s do this with sports in general. No more celebration of victory. No applause for the winners. Replace cheer leaders with mourn leaders, and let us tiptoe quietly to the parking lot whenever our team wins. The only exception to this should be the Carolina Panthers and the Charlotte Bobcats. Off-topic, but… they don’t _have_ cheerleaders in other countries, and sports there seem to do okay. Possibly because they’re watchable without the benefit of sideshows… Anyway, the instructions (and pissed-off athletes quoting of them) are badly-worded. The intent is to avoid a repeat of Donovan Bailey’s (I think) Hulk Hogan posedown after the 4 x 100m relay last time around. They’re still going to grab flags and do victory laps no matter what instructions they’re given. They might just choose not to be assholes, too, though. ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/36 "2004-05-18T08:15:57Z")
I thought Donovan Bailey was Canadian? Anyway, speaking as a non-American, I would be sad to see US athletes being placed under pressure to dampen the celebration of achieving a goal they have worked towards for years. Part of the fun of the Olympics has always been the desire to put one over on the Americans and that will continue to be the case. A little US pomp just adds to the mix. Moscow 1980 was a singularly unmemorable Games due to the absence of US athletes. No-one would be offended if an Irish athlete waves the flag after a gold medal win (not that that’s likely to happen) and I think US athletes should be allowed to celebrate in a similar fashion. Nonetheless, the type of celebrations linked to above are unacceptable from any nation. No athlete should need to be advised that this is the case, although sadly there is a culture in US sprinting which breeds these idiots. A quiet word in the ear of the more excitable should be enough - there’s no need to make a big deal about it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/37 "2004-05-18T10:39:18Z")
> [@Tdn](#): > > Oh, come now. To the rabid Muslims in the streets of Mecca shouting “Death to Americans”, do you think it much matters? Possibly not. But if it doesn’t matter to a people whether its enemies were soldiers or atheletes, then why do you think it will matter whether you wave a flag or not? You will be hated both for waving it and for not waving it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/38 "2004-05-18T12:54:08Z")
It isn’t as if the behavior of our athletes are going to change the perception of the United States in the eyes of most people. I enjoy some sports but I don’t understand why people take them so seriously sometimes. Who wins what medal and how they behaved doesn’t have an impact on my life or my opinion of other nations. Marc ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/39 "2004-05-18T13:33:39Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > What obvious pandering nonsense. Athletes are braggadocious by nature, they live for the win, nothing else matters, and now, just because we’re the US, we should slink quietly off the field, prideless and humble? Bullshit. For gods sakes, are you really that much of a fucking moron? Do you only see two choices, acting like an arrogant asshole or slinking off the field? Is your brain really that two dimensional that you can only see two possibilities? For fuck’s sake, man, how goddam stupid are you? Ay carrumba! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2004, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636/40 "2004-05-18T13:48:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Possibly not. But if it doesn’t matter to a people whether its enemies were soldiers or atheletes, then why do you think it will matter whether you wave a flag or not? You will be hated both for waving it and for not waving it. True enough, but it’s not just Muslim fanatics in the Mideast. It’s most of the world. We have a serious image problem, and we’d be damned well smart to give it some serious consideration. Our present attitude of “Fuck what the world wants, we do whatever we please” is exactly the kind of attitude that gets our buildings knocked down and our private citizens killed. Dude, you’re part of the problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-athletes-told-not-to-wave-flag-at-olympics/245636.md?page=3)