# US: Baghdad bombed their own market??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662 "2003-03-28T00:51:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CuriousCanuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@CuriousCanuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CuriousCanuck)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/1 "2003-03-28T00:51:52Z")
[From CNN: The US Government’s Cakehole](http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/03/27/sprj.irq.marketplace.bombing/index.html) [QUOTE] “We think it’s entirely possible that this may have been in fact an Iraqi missile that either went up and came down, or given the behaviors of the regime lately, it may have been a deliberate attack inside of town,” said Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks at the daily Central Command briefing. … “It’s just a sign of the brutality of this regime, and a sign of how little they care about civilians, that they put military assets close to civilians,” Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said. /QUOTE] I know I am going to get piled on here… especially considering my last OP… but… for Fuck sakes… ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/2 "2003-03-28T00:54:56Z")
Well good thing they cleared that up before the Arab media started jumping to conclusions. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/3 "2003-03-28T01:05:37Z")
Listen, it’s entirely within the realm of possibility that Saddam would bomb his own people to get brownie points with the rest of the world. Or would you believe him over the US? We’re talking about a sadist here folks, not a saint! I mean, come on. I realize our President and his minions are incompetent and arrogant and that they’ve pissed a good chunk of the planet off with their idiotic excuse for a foreign policy. But believing Iraqi progaghanda is even more moronic than blindly believing Bush’s, if only for the simple fact that it’s less-well written. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/4 "2003-03-28T01:22:27Z")
Agreed. At least in the US, government propaganda, which the Dems use as well, is subject to press verification. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/5 "2003-03-28T01:28:32Z")
It could have been a surface-to-air missile that went up and was forced by gravity to come down. Saddam might blow up his own people. Or, he might store so much ammunition in a private home that a spark causes a block to go boom. Or, the coalition missed a target and bombed a neighborhood. How can you know without doing an investigation on the ground? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/6 "2003-03-28T01:48:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > Or, the coalition missed a target and bombed a neighborhood. How can you know without doing an investigation on the ground? You can’t, but the coalition has been honest about some mistakes. I believe they admitted to firing some errant missiles that went into Iran, and I know they admitted to accidentally dropping a bomb on a bus of civilians. So if the US did acidentally blow up the market, I don’t see any reason for them to attempt to cover it up. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/7 "2003-03-28T02:29:00Z")
How do you accidently bomb a bus? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/8 "2003-03-28T02:36:12Z")
The one thing you can be absolutely sure of - the U.S. did not intentionally bomb a market. They have no reason to do so. Saddam, on the other hand, has lots of reasons for doing it. He needs to make the population of Baghdad be afraid of the U.S. forces, and hopefully to even hate them. Otherwise, he risks uprisings when the coalition forces finally enter Baghdad. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/9 "2003-03-28T02:41:33Z")
The accidental bombing of the bus, **Reeder** , was that a bridge was targeted and after the bomb was released, a bus drove onto the bridge. At least, so the US propaganda has told me. I’m sure that Iraqi propaganda says that the US had a fighter-bomber chasing the bus as it weaved back and forth trying to dodge the Western imperialists. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/10 "2003-03-28T02:53:51Z")
I think that if the US meant to hit a bus holding 37 people, there would have been a lot more than five dead. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/11 "2003-03-28T05:02:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*The accidental bombing of the bus, **Reeder** , was that a bridge was targeted and after the bomb was released, a bus drove onto the bridge. > > At least, so the US propaganda has told me. I’m sure that Iraqi propaganda says that the US had a fighter-bomber chasing the bus as it weaved back and forth trying to dodge the Western imperialists. > > The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. \*\* Anybody remember “The luckiest man in Iraq” from GWI? The bomb was on the way down and this Iraq truck drives across the bridge while the bomb is on the way down. The truck just clears the bridge and the bomb hits and blows up the bridge. Sounds like the bus was a couple of seconds too slow. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/12 "2003-03-28T05:11:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*It could have been a surface-to-air missile that went up and was forced by gravity to come down. Yeah, gravity’s a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/13 "2003-03-28T05:17:28Z")
According to the military experts on NPR, who were talking about this incident, they said it was highly _unlikely_ that it was a US weapon. Reason being that the US was firing _ground penetrating munitions_ (i.e. bunkerbusters), so if it _had_ been a US weapon gone astray, it would have buried itself in the ground before exploding. Additionally, the reason there were so many injured at the market was because the Iraqis have stopped worrying about being blown up if they’re not near a military target since US weapons have been so accurate, thus far. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/14 "2003-03-28T06:19:15Z")
Personally, I’d rather take the word of a journalist that was on the ground in Baghdad. \*\* Civilians Slaughtered Robert Fisk, The Independent\*\* > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD, 27 March 2003 — It was an outrage, an obscenity. The severed hand on the metal door, the swamp of blood and mud across the road, the human brains inside a garage, the incinerated, skeletal remains of an Iraqi mother and her three small children in their still smoldering car. Two missiles from a single American jet killed them all — more than 20 Iraqi civilians, torn to pieces before they could be ‘liberated’ by the nation which destroyed their lives. > > Who dares, I ask myself, to call this ‘collateral damage’? Abu Taleb Street was packed with pedestrians and motorists when the American pilot approached through the dense sandstorm that covered northern Baghdad in a cloak of red and yellow dust and rain yesterday morning. It’s a dirt poor neighborhood — of mostly Shiite Muslims, the same people whom Messers Bush and Blair still fondly hope will rise up against Saddam — a place of oil-sodden car repair shops, overcrowded apartments and cheap cafes. > > Everyone I spoke to heard the plane. One man, so shocked by the headless corpses he had just seen, could only say two words. “Roar, flash,’’ he kept saying and then closed his eyes so tight that the muscles rippled between them. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/15 "2003-03-28T06:24:37Z")
**EasyPhil** , that quote _doesn’t_ rule out what the military experts on NPR said. An anti-aircraft missile is designed to create a wide blast to better the chances of bringing down the aircraft. Everyone he spoke to _heard_ the plane, didn’t see it. So they couldn’t identify what kind of plane it was (say a surveillance plane), nor could they state that they had seen it drop anything. It proves nothing. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/16 "2003-03-28T06:35:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\ ***EasyPhil** , that quote _doesn’t_ rule out what the military experts on NPR said. An anti-aircraft missile is designed to create a wide blast to better the chances of bringing down the aircraft. Everyone he spoke to _heard_ the plane, didn’t see it. So they couldn’t identify what kind of plane it was (say a surveillance plane), nor could they state that they had seen it drop anything. It proves nothing. \*\* So these experts “know” what weapons were being used at that very moment by every aircraft or are they speculating? Are they involved in the conflict or just providing expert commentary on what they “think” is happening? With all the disinformation coming from the “coalition” spin machine, I don’t see how anyone isn’t skeptical of this particular story. Oh, damn it, I forgot, it’s an invasion of liberation, yeah, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/17 "2003-03-28T06:36:43Z")
Well, it proves that good old Fisk can get a good head of steam going without having all the facts! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/18 "2003-03-28T06:39:33Z")
Listen Phil, no one is saying this bombing can’t be the US’ fault, just that you can’t make these judgement calls without having the facts. Agreed? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/19 "2003-03-28T06:50:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EasyPhil \* > \*\*So these experts “know” what weapons were being used at that very moment by every aircraft or are they speculating? Are they involved in the conflict or just providing expert commentary on what they “think” is happening? > > With all the disinformation coming from the “coalition” spin machine, I don’t see how anyone isn’t skeptical of this particular story. Oh, damn it, I forgot, it’s an invasion of liberation, yeah, that’s it. \*\* Well, let’s see here the word from the folks in the military is > [@](#): > > Brooks said that coalition planes did fly a mission over Baghdad at the time the marketplace was hit, but “not in that area.” and > [@](#): > > Photographs of the bombed marketplace have now been analyzed by military officials who concluded the craters and other damage was not representative of what would have happened from a 2,000-pound bomb. and > [@](#): > > “The best we can do at this point is account for everything we did and we have accounted for our weapon systems that we fired on that night,” he said. “They hit their target, we’re certain of that. The rest of the story, we just don’t know. We may never know.” And since none of the French, Russian, nor Chinese experts have come out and said, “We’ve looked at those images and it’s clear that the US is lying.” I’d have to say that the military folks are being honest about the matter. Geeze, **Phil** , even Satan has to tell the truth every once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Fugazi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f08c70/32.png) [@Fugazi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fugazi)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/20 "2003-03-28T06:56:42Z")
Oh sure, \*\* Easy Phil \*\* now it’s all clear to me. We bombed a market full of Shiite Muslims because we want them on our side. And Mr Robert Fisk from the aptly named “the Independent” is obviously the epitome of objective journalism. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Who dares, I ask myself, to call this ‘collateral damage’? What an ass. Sure this could have been an American bomb gone astray. Anyone who thinks our technology is going to be 100% perfect all the time has obviously never had to reboot Windows. It also could be the result of something the Iraqis did, either on purpose or on accident. We won’t know anything until after the war. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662.md?page=2)