# US: Baghdad bombed their own market??? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 28, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662 "2003-03-28T00:51:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/41 "2003-03-28T16:24:44Z")
Err–that was for **Phil** , by the way. And yea, I should take a deep breath and calm down (good advice). ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/42 "2003-03-28T16:26:50Z")
One thing is for sure. Seeing all the outrage the market explosion created certainly has given Saddam some ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/43 "2003-03-28T16:45:38Z")
Has the U.S. definitively said that this was the result of Iraq bombing the marketplace? The stories I’ve seen have U.S. officials saying it was “possible” that happened. I haven’t seen a quote from a U.S. official saying “Yep, Saddam bombed the place. What a jerk.” What I **have** seen is a lot of “we don’t know” type answers to the question of what happened to the marketplace. It’s entirely possible that U.S. munitions caused the destruction – in fact, it may be the most likely scenario. But it’s also possible that Iraqi munitions accidentally strayed into the marketplace. Or perhaps munitions were being transported through there and detonated prematurely. Any number of scenarios can be devised, and at this point anyone who “knows” what happened likely doesn’t. The second quote from the OP, from Victoria Clarke of the Pentagon, makes perfect sense to me. We’ve already seen one instance of schoolchildren guiding coalition soldiers to a hidden cache of weapons and ammunition in their school. I think that’s a definite sign of a regime that cares little about its civilians. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/44 "2003-03-28T16:57:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mojo \* > \*\*For a guy who claims to have been there, Fisk’s claim of “two missles” isn’t being reported by anyone else (Well, except the “World Socialist” who has the death toll at “approaching 30” and fawningly quotes Fisk). [And his death toll is off by 6 or so](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2892215.stm). And there’s no way a guy on the ground could know it was an American pilot. But we wouldn’t want the facts to get in the way of his news reporting. \*\* > > Here’s another report from [someone else on the ground](http://lists.inlet.org/pipermail/baghdadjournal/2003-March/000029.html) > [@](#): > > AL-SHAAB COMMERCIAL DISTRICT > Two weapons fell around noon on March 26 in the middle > of the commercial sector along the main street in the > Al-Shaab district of Baghdad about three blocks beyond > the Ministry of Trade shopping center. The two blasts > resulted in two shallow craters, about 3-4 feet deep > and 6 feet in diameter, one on either side of the > street, near the intersection. Though the craters were > shallow, the bombs projected a powerful horizontal > impact that reached over a very wide radius. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/45 "2003-03-28T17:04:27Z")
Interesting, it doesn’t say who the weapons belong to, which is the whole fucking point of the OP! Did you miss the memo? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/46 "2003-03-28T17:15:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by EasyPhil \* > \*\*You make a good point, but you have to apply the same skepticism to the information that’s being put out by the administration and it’s allies since they have a clear and recent history(last 7 days) of outright lying about what has happened in the war: Claims of cities being captured that weren’t, large uprisings that were small or insignificant, Saddaam using stunt doubles because he was killed in the initial bombing, which changed to him being injured and so on and so on. \*\* I’m trying to filter through the tons of information being provided by all parties in an effort to remain impartial and to base my opinions on facts, not news speculation. To help me with this, **Easy Phil** , I would ask for a Cite on the assertions you are making here. I know of one example which you mentioned, but I’ve seen no indication of “outright lying” being done by the administration or the allies. Please provide me with cites to these allegations. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/47 "2003-03-28T17:23:57Z")
This is not a matter of believing Saddam over Bush, or vice versa. Just because Saddam is a bigger scum doesn’t mean lesser scum Bush is automatically telling the truth. Both have proven to be big enough liars that both their statements can be ignored for the oral flatulance that they are. I trust neither one to make statements based on reality, only on what can help them politically. The truth is we simply haven’t heard from a trustworthy source on this issue yet. ---
**Author:** ![Wabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba9def/32.png) [@Wabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wabbit)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/48 "2003-03-28T17:42:22Z")
Agreed **Revtim** , I doubt we’ll know the truth of this until after an on-scene (and hopefully impartial) assessment can be done. Jumping to conclusions either way doesn’t do anyone any good. ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/49 "2003-03-28T18:15:31Z")
Yes, I don’t know how in my search for unbiased sources I overlooked a message board posting from a guy who’s already put this incident in his “war crimes” report.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/50 "2003-03-28T18:55:54Z")
**Mojo** , it would help me to understand the point of that if you’d be good enough to link to what you’re talking about. Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/51 "2003-03-28T18:59:05Z")
Click on **EasyPhil’s** last link. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/52 "2003-03-28T19:33:04Z")
We are bombing a city with 5 million inhabitants. If there is a 1% error rate that leaves us with a lot of civilian casulties. It will happen and the government will try to soften what we see. That said I see no stratigical benifit for us to target civilians. If we are responsible for this bombing it was an accident and there will be more. That all said there is an enormous propaganda gain for Saddaam Husein if we are blamed for this bombing. The more we are seen by the population of Iraq as evil child killers theharder they fight us and the longer he stays in power. I suspect that it will be hard to prove one way or another either way because any chance that it was “friendly fire” will be cleaned up and made to go away. It is just to convenient for it to be our fault at this time. I don’t know if he is desperate enough yet to be bombing his own population, although that may come. Whatever happened, and we may never have conclusive evidance, had to have been an accident. It may not matter who did it. We will be blamed, and that probably will be part of the baggage that will be there when the war is over. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/53 "2003-03-28T19:53:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know if he is desperate enough yet to be bombing his own population, although that may come. I don’t know about that either, though I certainly wouldn’t put it past him. I do know that he is desperate enough to blame an Iraqi military mistake on Americans though. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/54 "2003-03-28T21:30:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamlet \* > \*\*I’m trying to filter through the tons of information being provided by all parties in an effort to remain impartial and to base my opinions on facts, not news speculation. To help me with this, **Easy Phil** , I would ask for a Cite on the assertions you are making here. I know of one example which you mentioned, but I’ve seen no indication of “outright lying” being done by the administration or the allies. Please provide me with cites to these allegations. \*\* [Here’s a start](http://www.fair.org/activism/scuds.html) ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/55 "2003-03-28T21:37:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mojo \* > \*\*Yes, I don’t know how in my search for unbiased sources I overlooked a message board posting from a guy who’s already put this incident in his “war crimes” report.:rolleyes: \*\* Well, this is an American who is on the ground in Baghdad documenting what he is seeing. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/56 "2003-03-28T21:47:06Z")
You know, I read that in WWII, during the V1 blitz, more damage was caused by brit flak on their own people than by the V1’s themselves. (or was it the V-2’s?) Anyway, AA has always caused “freindly fire” civilian casualties. How much more so when fired at planes that are pretty much not going to be hit anyway. The shallow crater caused by the explosion is evidence (but not proof) it was not ours. We were dropping "bunker busters’, thus it would have been a very deep crater. Thus it is probable, that it was freindly fire by the Iraqis. No need to postulate it was done by SH on purpose- “what goes up, must come down”. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/57 "2003-03-28T21:53:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DrDeth \* > \*\* > The shallow crater caused by the explosion is evidence (but not proof) it was not ours. We were dropping "bunker busters’, thus it would have been a very deep crater. Thus it is probable, that it was freindly fire by the Iraqis. No need to postulate it was done by SH on purpose- “what goes up, must come down”. \*\* Looks like we are dropping other things as well according to[this account](http://www.iraqpeaceteam.org/pages/diaries.html) > [@](#): > > _This morning I accompanied April to the Al Kindi Hospital where we interviewed an extended family of 25 that had been living in six houses together on one farm just outside of Baghdad. At 6:00 PM yesterday, B-52s dropped cluster bombs on their farm, destroying all six houses, killing four and severely injuring many others. Even the farm animals were killed. We were told that yellow cylinders landed in their yard, and when they and the animals crept closer to investigate, the bombs detonated. The father of one of these families, Saaed Shalish, age 36 – a farmer, lost two sons but he has not yet been told. Doctors tell me that he’s in critical condition_ ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/58 "2003-03-28T21:58:25Z")
Well looks like we’ll be having this discussion again. Another market bombed, this time 50 dead. > **[The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News](https://news.sky.com/)** > > Sky News delivers breaking news, headlines and top stories from business, politics, entertainment and more in the UK and worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/59 "2003-03-28T22:26:18Z")
Phil- on THAT run, we were dropping “bunker busters”. Haven’t heard of “clsuter bombs” from B-52’s, either, but… ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662/60 "2003-03-29T20:00:45Z")
Take a look at this from Sky News > **[The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News](https://news.sky.com/)** > > Sky News delivers breaking news, headlines and top stories from business, politics, entertainment and more in the UK and worldwide. Makes sense if it’s true, of course it isn’t going to convince anyone who is willing to believe the worst about the coalition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-baghdad-bombed-their-own-market/164662.md?page=4)