# US/Canadian football hybrid **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 12, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843 "2008-12-12T05:11:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/1 "2008-12-12T05:11:13Z")
I’m watching the Australia/Ireland mutant Frankenfootball game now and I’m wondering if there has ever been a football game between US and Canada or US champions v Canadian champions? Under some sort of hybrid rules I suppose. They change the rules for the Australia/Ireland game every year and for this game the Irish players have different rules than the Australian players. This is a replay but fortunately I don’t know the result because nobody cares about this game. So has it ever been tried? I’m sure you could get more US/Canada rivalry than AFC/NFC rivalry in the the Pro Bowl and get someone to actually care about the game. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/2 "2008-12-12T05:22:22Z")
IIRC, one of the first games, in the late 19th century, of what can be considered modern American football game was between McGill University and Harvard, where each half was played according to one of the team’s rules. From another message board, I scooped the following stats for NFL/CFL exhibition games, although I can’t vouch for the veracity: 1950: New York Giants 20, Ottawa Rough Riders 6 1951: New York Giants 38, Ottawa Rough Riders 6 1959: Chicago Cardinals 55, Toronto Argonauts 26 1960: Pittsburgh Steelers 43, Toronto Argonauts 26 1961: St. Louis Cardinals 36, Toronto Argonauts 7 1961: Chicago Bears 34, Montreal Alouettes 16 1961: Hamilton Tiger-Cats 38, Buffalo Bills (AFL) 21 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/3 "2008-12-12T05:24:08Z")
The problem, as I see it, is that even if both sides played under Canadian rules, the US team would likely dominate. Most people end up in the CFL because they don’t have the talent to make it in the NFL or didn’t go there for another reason. The people in the CFL aren’t bad, by any stretch, but if an NFL team thought they’d be worth it, they’d probably be in the US. Now I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/4 "2008-12-12T06:26:00Z")
QUOTE]I’m sure you could get more US/Canada rivalry than AFC/NFC rivalry in the the Pro Bowl and get someone to actually care about the game. [/QUOTE] Not sure anyone would watch, it may be more interesting than the Pro Bowl but so are TV fishing shows. > [@](#): > > The problem, as I see it, is that even if both sides played under Canadian rules, the US team would likely dominate. Most likely? Unless it’s Oakland or Detroit, it would be a massacre! > [@](#): > > Most people end up in the CFL because they don’t have the talent to make it in the NFL or didn’t go there for another reason. The people in the CFL aren’t bad, by any stretch, but if an NFL team thought they’d be worth it, they’d probably be in the US. It’s not that they’re bad, they just not good …enough. They are professional football players. Most CFL players are American imports who decided they’d rather get paid to play and be seen rather than be on the third string or practice roster in the NFL. There’s a long waiting list for NFL jobs and there’s alot of luck involved. > [@](#): > > IIRC, one of the first games, in the late 19th century, of what can be considered modern American football game was between McGill University and Harvard, where each half was played according to one of the team’s rules. I read about these games years ago. From what I can remember , McGill was quite dominant in the first couple of games so Harvard began to modify their rules to compensate and prevent McGill from using certain plays, formations, motions, etc. which caused some of the differentiations between Canadian and American football today. ---
**Author:** ![mrpayday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@mrpayday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrpayday)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/5 "2008-12-12T06:38:47Z")
I have that Canadian football was a lot more competitive with American football in the 1950s in terms of money paid and getting Americans to playing Canada. However the Irish are competitive in the International Rules series despite being paid a lot less than Australian teams. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/6 "2008-12-12T15:23:01Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > The problem, as I see it, is that even if both sides played under Canadian rules, the US team would likely dominate. > > Most people end up in the CFL because they don’t have the talent to make it in the NFL or didn’t go there for another reason. The people in the CFL aren’t bad, by any stretch, but if an NFL team thought they’d be worth it, they’d probably be in the US. > > Now I could be wrong, but that’s how I see it. No, I think you’re right. So have the American team play under American rules, and the Canadian team play under Canadian rules. Make it 12 on 11 and I think it gets a lot closer. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/7 "2008-12-12T15:52:31Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > QUOTE]Most CFL players are American imports who decided they’d rather get paid to play and be seen rather than be on the third string or practice roster in the NFL. No more than half of the players on any one team can be American, so “most” can’t be correct. > [@](#): > > I read about these games years ago. From what I can remember , McGill was quite dominant in the first couple of games so Harvard began to modify their rules to compensate and prevent McGill from using certain plays, formations, motions, etc. which caused some of the differentiations between Canadian and American football today. Further rule differences occurred because the CFL didn’t adopt many of the rule changes that the NFL made. The CFL team salary cap is lower than many NFL _players_ make ($4.5 million, IIRC), so there’s little chance that the Canadian teams are going to be competitive with American teams. If the games were played by Canadian rules, with 12 players per team on the field, unlimited motion by receivers, 3 downs, etc., it might slow the NFL teams down a bit, but ultimately, the outcome would be pretty predictable. Too, there are a number of NFL players (Jeff Garcia, for example) with a lot of CFL experience. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/8 "2008-12-12T16:25:43Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > No, I think you’re right. So have the American team play under American rules, and the Canadian team play under Canadian rules. Make it 12 on 11 and I think it gets a lot closer. Not really. Today’s NFL teams would annihilate a Canadian team. The different in talent on the lines is just too vast. The Canadian team would never be able to run an effective play from scrimmage; on the offensive side the quarterback would never get a decent chance to run a play before being hit, and on the defensive side they’d never be able to put pressure on the passer or plug up enough rushing lanes. The NFL team might be very surprised indeed the first time they had to defend against receivers running before the snap, but I’d guess it’d take one, two plays at most to get used to that. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/9 "2008-12-12T17:40:57Z")
If you’re going to nitpick at least get your facts straight! > [@](#): > > No more than half of the players on any one team can be American, so “most” can’t be correct. True, each team has a 42 man active roster which must contain 21 non-import players, but they also have a 4 man reserve and a 7 man practice roster which have no limitations. So the ratio is closer to 21:53 so my generalizing by using “most” is not far off. > [@](#): > > Further rule differences occurred because the CFL didn’t adopt many of the rule changes that the NFL made. Not sure what the point of this sentence is… beside stating the obvious! > [@](#): > > The CFL team salary cap is lower than many NFL players make ($4.5 million, IIRC) Nope! A simple google search reveals the CFL Salary cap for 2008 is $4.2 million aand the average player salary in the NFL from what I can find is approx. $2 million. It was $1.25 million in 2007. > [@](#): > > If the games were played by Canadian rules, with 12 players per team on the field, unlimited motion by receivers, 3 downs, etc., I disagree, I think the once the Americans got used to the larger field and more players, it would still be a massacre. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/10 "2008-12-12T18:09:15Z")
Yeah, but if you give the Canadians 12 men on offense with moving receivers vs an 11 man NFL defense, it might be interesting 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/11 "2008-12-12T18:13:17Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Yeah, but if you give the Canadians 12 men on offense with moving receivers vs an 11 man NFL defense, it might be interesting 😃 On the other hand, the Canadian team would have a longer field and only 3 downs… ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/12 "2008-12-12T18:57:46Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Yeah, but if you give the Canadians 12 men on offense with moving receivers vs an 11 man NFL defense, it might be interesting 😃 Yes, or vice versa. I am a CFL fan, but realistically they aren’t even on the same field. I think, a game against a team from the defunct NFL Europa might have been close, if not interesting. Also for anyone wondering, a CFL team would beat any US college team. Remember these are still professional athletes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/13 "2008-12-12T19:46:05Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > I have that Canadian football was a lot more competitive with American football in the 1950s in terms of money paid and getting Americans to playing Canada. However the Irish are competitive in the International Rules series despite being paid a lot less than Australian teams. 100% less, I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/14 "2008-12-12T20:02:13Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > I disagree, I think the once the Americans got used to the larger field and more players, it would still be a massacre. Yes, the CFL would lose. But with Canadian rules, it would be worth it to see an NFL kick receiver thinking he can call for a fair catch or an NFL pass receiver trying to keep an eye on the goalpost in the middle of the end zone. And the CFL team will damn sure be ready to run the ball back if a field goal misses. Hey, maybe it wouldn’t be a _total_ massacre! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/15 "2008-12-18T16:48:58Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > On the other hand, the Canadian team would have a longer field and only 3 downs… Having one more player and the wider and longer field is an advantage to the CFL teams not a disadvantage. One less down ould be a problem though… ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/16 "2008-12-18T19:24:00Z")
[removed comments on objections, 'cause it’s not worth worrying about] > [@Sparky812](#): > > Nope! A simple google search reveals the CFL Salary cap for 2008 is $4.2 million aand the average player salary in the NFL from what I can find is approx. $2 million. It was $1.25 million in 2007. I did not say “lower than the average salary” or even “lower than most players.” I said “lower than many players.” Many players in the NFL earn more than $4.2 million. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/17 "2008-12-18T19:32:46Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > [removed comments on objections, 'cause it’s not worth worrying about]I did not say “lower than the average salary” or even “lower than most players.” I said “lower than many players.” Many players in the NFL earn more than $4.2 million. OK, then, using your logic, I could argue the CFL salary cap is actually more than many players’ salaries in the NFL. WTF point are you trying to make anyway? ---
**Author:** ![TheBoltEater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheBoltEater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoltEater)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/18 "2008-12-18T20:07:35Z")
I enjoy the CFL myself, and wish it would get more TV coverage in the US, but here’s all you need to know about the talent disparity between the CFL and the NFL. The NFL gets its pick, every year, of the best players that football factories like USC, Texas, Oklahoma, Florida and on and on can produce. The all-time leading rusher (Mike Pringle) and the all-time leading passer (Damon Allen) in CFL history both played their collegiate careers at Cal State Fullerton. ---
**Author:** ![BigNik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/73ab20/32.png) [@BigNik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigNik)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/19 "2008-12-18T21:47:38Z")
> [@mrpayday](#): > > However the Irish are competitive in the International Rules series despite being paid a lot less than Australian teams. The Irish don’t get paid - a few of them have come to Australia for that reason. With that said, the games are very different, and “International Rules” (I preferred it when the game was originally called “Rafferty’s Rules”) is much closer to gaelic football than Aussie rules. There are concessions on both sides, but certain concepts (the round ball, the rectangular field, goalkeepers, keeping scoring shots down) make the game much more alien to Australian players than to the Irish. This is designed to compensate for the larger player base and professionalism of the Australians. The rules changes also make the game more alien to the Australian _audience_, too, and there’s a lot less interest than there could be for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2008, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843/20 "2008-12-19T03:05:37Z")
> [@TheBoltEater](#): > > The all-time leading rusher (Mike Pringle) and the all-time leading passer (Damon Allen) in CFL history both played their collegiate careers at Cal State Fullerton. …wow, just… wow. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-canadian-football-hybrid/476843.md?page=2)