# US Capitol Locked Down - Shots Fired **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 3, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288 "2013-10-03T18:35:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/101 "2013-10-04T14:12:20Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I’m wondering why, when standing next to the her with guns drawn, they didn’t shoot at the tires - seems like a reasonably low-risk action that’s likely to make it much harder to flee effectively. This is gonna come off snarky, and for that I apologize, but the fact is they were around her car for only a few seconds (I counted about 8 seconds in [this video that Happy linked to](http://bcove.me/k5gcd0ek)) and they were shouting at her, not at her tires. Their guns were naturally pointed at the object of their attention. And while I’m no expert, I’d wager that shooting out tires IRL isn’t exactly like Hollywood would have us believe. Where does the bullet go after it perforates the relatively thin and permeable material of the tire, for instance? Where does a missed shot go? Note that the officers did fire shots after she managed to break thru the 4 of them surrounding her car; how do we know that they weren’t shooting at her tires then? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/102 "2013-10-04T14:23:24Z")
BTW, spike strips don’t necessarily stop the car or render it useless as a weapon. They make it much harder to move a car but not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/103 "2013-10-04T14:29:20Z")
They reportedly slashed the tires on the car of that guy in NYC who was surrounded by bikers and he still managed to drive for many more miles into the city. Shooting a tire isn’t an automatic off switch for a car. If you don’t really care what happens to your rims, you can go a long way flat tires. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/104 "2013-10-04T14:40:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Where does a missed shot go? Are you kidding? The police were so close that they could have literally put the muzzles of their pistols against the stationary tires before they pulled the trigger. There is no such thing as a missed shot under those circumstances - if you didn’t hit, it’s because you didn’t try. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/105 "2013-10-04T14:46:17Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > “You got a Beemer and it wasn’t insured?” Wait, Beemer is BMW? I never knew that! I thought it was Bentley or an American brand or something! :eek: I don’t think insurance would have covered this anyway. Hmm did they shoot and kill her while she was in the car? Is it that easy to hit someone in a moving vehicle? I guess the fact that she tried it at 2 government buildings shows insanity or planning, not just a lost motorist. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/106 "2013-10-04T14:48:15Z")
Jesus, some of the people defending this lady in this thread sound crazier than she was. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/107 "2013-10-04T15:08:55Z")
Authorities are saying Carey has a history of mental illness and that [she may have thought the president was stalking her.](http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/04/20816675-woman-in-dc-chase-may-have-thought-obama-was-stalking-her-sources-say?lite) Carey’s mom says [her daughter was suffering from postpartum depression.](http://abcnews.go.com/US/miriam-carey-capitol-suspect-suffered-post-partum-depression/story?id=20465157) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/108 "2013-10-04T16:45:58Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > Jesus, some of the people defending this lady in this thread sound crazier than she was. Indeed. Lots of Monday-morning quarterbacks around here. Bottom line: Crazy or not, don’t start smashing your car into stuff around the White House and run over Secret Service agents and expect to walk away. Simple. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/109 "2013-10-04T16:48:15Z")
The Washington Post has a timeline of events. The entire incident took 8 minutes and it appears that the police did try to put a metal barricade of some type in her path (point 1 in the timeline), but she evaded it. I’d rather no one be killed, but if I have a raving lunatic tearing through my city streets, I’d rather she be killed than a bystander or a police officer. > **[How it happened: Car chase from White House to U.S. Capitol ends in police...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/local/capitol-shooting/?hpid=z2)** > > A car chase that began when an unknown driver tried to breach a White House security barrier ended across downtown Washington near the U.S. Capitol, with a confrontation that included shots fired and one Capitol Police officer injured, police said. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/110 "2013-10-04T17:07:46Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Are you kidding? The police were so close that they could have literally put the muzzles of their pistols against the stationary tires before they pulled the trigger. There is no such thing as a missed shot under those circumstances - if you didn’t hit, it’s because you didn’t try. And do you also believe that the bullets would magically stop moving once they passed thru the tire? Real life isn’t a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/111 "2013-10-04T17:32:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And do you also believe that the bullets would magically stop moving once they passed thru the tire? The bullet would stop moving because its kinetic energy would be expended as heat and work, deforming the bullet, the tire and the metal rim. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/112 "2013-10-04T17:41:19Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > The bullet would stop moving because its kinetic energy would be expended as heat and work, deforming the bullet, the tire and the metal rim. I doubt that would be the case, with certainty, for every bullet fired. Do you have a cite to back up your assertion? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/113 "2013-10-04T17:49:40Z")
Well, if there’s one thing I learned from the A-Team and Starsky & Hutch, is that a car with shot out tires (or a bullet hole in the radiator!) either becomes totally immobile, or is launched into the air, where it does a half barrel roll before landing on its roof. Without tires, cars are rendered ineffective. [Just watch these immobile cars race each other.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54V6TYqF1ac)[Or this one on the freeway – no movement there.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sPQU_mmhvo) [This SUV has been rendered ineffective, too.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_RPkqvdD0) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/114 "2013-10-04T18:37:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This is gonna come off snarky, and for that I apologize… Your remarks don’t seem snarky to me. > [@](#): > > Where does the bullet go after it perforates the relatively thin and permeable material of the tire Probably not nearly as far as those shots they fired as she drove off (most or all of which apparently missed). > [@](#): > > … how do we know that they weren’t shooting at her tires then? We don’t. But we do know that they missed, which would have been much less likely had they been shooting from a range of 8 inches. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/115 "2013-10-04T18:40:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Shooting a tire isn’t an automatic off switch for a car. Obviously true. But it’s a lot more effective than the shots that were fired. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/116 "2013-10-04T18:43:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > And do you also believe that the bullets would magically stop moving once they passed thru the tire? This looks to be an unfruitful line of argument, given that we’re comparing bullets fired downward into a tire with ones fired horizontally, apparently into nothing that the shooters intended to hit. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/117 "2013-10-04T19:27:59Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Where does the bullet go after it perforates the relatively thin and permeable material of the tire, for instance? Where does a missed shot go? The tire has steel belts in it, which might mess a bullet quite a bit, especially if was hollow point. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/118 "2013-10-04T19:31:35Z")
And still I see all these posts explaining why shooting out tires would allegedly be safe, but nothing to refute the point that shooting out tires wouldn’t be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/119 "2013-10-04T21:47:44Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > … nothing to refute the point that shooting out tires wouldn’t be useful. In the past I’ve checked out some YouTube videos of “cop chases” (of which there are plenty). A standard technique is to put out a [spike strip](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_strip) to puncture the tires of a fleeing suspect. Less common - but by no means rare - is for a cop to try to shoot out one or more tires. As noted above, this certainly does not stop a vehicle in its tracks. But it does significantly limit top speed and maneuverability, which tends to reduce both the range and duration of a chase. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288/120 "2013-10-05T01:26:34Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And still I see all these posts explaining why shooting out tires would allegedly be safe, but nothing to refute the point that shooting out tires wouldn’t be useful. All true, but if you’re doing all that with the specter of a possible terrorist attach near the WH or Capital your goal is to reduce the threat as quickly as possible. It’s relatively easy to identify the best possible course of action in retrospect, but with limited time, knowledge, and options you have to act quickly and decisively. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-locked-down-shots-fired/670288.md?page=7)