# US Capitol under siege **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830 "2021-01-06T20:27:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/561 "2021-01-10T15:26:59Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Seditious insurrection, YES. > > Since the actions themselves are so horrendous— people dying, the Capitol vandalized — many of us are (understandably) losing sight of the stated PURPOSE behind this insurrection. It was to PREVENT THE RESULTS OF AN ELECTION. It was SPECIFICALLY to end American democracy. Oh, hell yes. And charges pressed to the fullest extent. No plea bargains. These people need to do 20 hard and everybody needs to see them pay. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/562 "2021-01-10T15:40:57Z")
Starting to see some reports that a second “off duty” officer has died. Rumors even suggest he was the son of the former sergeant at arms. > ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/563 "2021-01-10T15:42:39Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh, hell yes. And charges pressed to the fullest extent. No plea bargains. These people need to do 20 hard and everybody needs to see them pay. And every four years, the Republican candidate has to answer the question; “If elected, will you pardon the 1/6/21 seditionists?” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/564 "2021-01-10T15:43:47Z")
Nice touch. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/565 "2021-01-10T15:55:01Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What I think is that you look at each case individually, and actually establish what the intent was. If you can establish that this was, in fact, the intention of some of the people who entered the building, I imagine that there are charges that would reflect those circumstances. But you need, also, to establish that the intent was sincere and not hyperbolic on the part of each person concerned. Saying someone “should be hung” for being a traitor or an anti-Trumper or whatever is not the same as an actual intent to kill that person. Bullshit. The few people with murder in their heart would not have gotten as far as they did without the 1000 (or however many) others who were just “following the crowd.” They WERE the crowd and they were the force that gave the more violent ones access. They are guilty of abetting sedition and attempted murder, and should be given just as harsh a penalty, regardless if their “intent was sincere or hyperbolic.” If not for them, the more violent offenders would have been left standing out in the cold, holding their zipties. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/566 "2021-01-10T16:27:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Oh, hell yes. And charges pressed to the fullest extent. No plea bargains. These people need to do 20 hard and everybody needs to see them pay. One of the problems you might face in this scenario is that pressing all charges, with no plea bargains, requires an actual trial. What will you do then, when one or two of the jury members are sympathetic to the cause, and hang the jury, resulting in a mistrial? Polls show that a significant portion of the American population are sufficiently stupid or gullible or evil to actually believe that the election was stolen. Even in heavily-Democratic Washington D.C., what are the chances that one or two of these people end up on a jury of 12? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/567 "2021-01-10T16:32:01Z")
Doesn’t matter. They can rot in jail until the final appeals are done. No bail. Hung jury just means they stay in jail until the _new_ trial is finished. We spend $780 billion a year on Defense. Some of that can go to pay for the prosecution of native insurrectionists. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/568 "2021-01-10T16:46:51Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > Starting to see some reports that a second “off duty” officer has died. Rumors even suggest he was the son of the former sergeant at arms. The “off duty” status refers to the time he died, yesterday Jan **9th**. Social media rumors that it was suicide. There doesn’t seem to be any information yet on what he was doing on 1/6. > **[Off-duty Death of USCP Officer Howard Liebengood](https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/duty-death-uscp-officer-howard-liebengood)** > > The United States Capitol Police is deeply saddened by the off-duty death on January 9, 2021, of Officer Howard Liebengood, age 51. He was assigned to the Senate Division, and has been with the Department since April 2005. Our thoughts and prayers go... ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/569 "2021-01-10T16:50:34Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > This is how you get hangings. And cross burnings and lynchings. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/570 "2021-01-10T16:53:17Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > The “off duty” status refers to the time he died, yesterday 1/ **9**. Actually, I think it means he didn’t die in the line of duty. It could be a natural death. Out of a group of 2000+, the death of a Capitol Police officer isn’t a significant coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/571 "2021-01-10T16:56:05Z")
[https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger](https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger) And excellent video from Arnold Schwarzenegger. He lived with the fallout of what was attempted on weds… ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/572 "2021-01-10T17:17:45Z")
Yep. I’m forwarding that link to multiple people. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/573 "2021-01-10T17:23:27Z")
A name to keep in mind, Mike Nearman, a Republican Representative from Oregon, who, during the riots, [opened a door to allow the rioters into the Capitol](https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/01/video-clearly-shows-rep-mike-nearman-helping-right-wing-demonstrators-breach-oregon-capitol.html). Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/574 "2021-01-10T17:27:54Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > They are guilty of abetting sedition and attempted murder, and should be given just as harsh a penalty, regardless if their “intent was sincere or hyperbolic.” If not for them, the more violent offenders would have been left standing out in the cold, holding their zipties. Yep. > **[Was 'Hang Mike Pence' Chanted at Capitol Riot?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hang-mike-pence-chant-capitol-riot/)** > > Photojournalists also captured images of a gallows erected outside the Capitol. The answer to the question about what they chanted, for Snopes and other reports, is YES. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/575 "2021-01-10T17:28:09Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > A name to keep in mind, Mike Nearman, a Republican Representative from Oregon, who, during the riots, [opened a door to allow the rioters into the Capitol](https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/01/video-clearly-shows-rep-mike-nearman-helping-right-wing-demonstrators-breach-oregon-capitol.html). Fuck him. State Representative, State Capitol, December 21 riot. Just to clarify. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/576 "2021-01-10T17:28:25Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > There weren’t any reporters on site at all. There actually were quite a few media inside, because they were there to report on the certification vote. But they got herded away for their own safety, at the same time as the Reps and Senators and Congressional officials, so weren’t able to report at the time. They’re starting to publish their stories now, explaining some of what happened and commenting on the different pictures from within the chamber, and they make it clear they and the others in the chambers were afraid for their life and personal safety. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/577 "2021-01-10T17:32:27Z")
Different day. Different Capitol. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/578 "2021-01-10T17:33:02Z")
ETA Ninja’d ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/579 "2021-01-10T17:36:12Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Different day. Different Capitol. You forgot to add : “Different riot.” It is very scary. 😥 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/580 "2021-01-10T17:37:08Z")
On the various arguments and discussions on this, I’ll just say let professional prosecutors figure out what charges to bring and what evidence to present and who to concentrate upon. The codes define what things constitute the specified offenses. I would, though, demand that the incoming administration make it clear to their DOJ and LEAs to neither bring up half-baked cases that fall apart just for the sake of being seen rushing to “do something, anything”, _ **nor** _ pull punches for the sake of “peacemaking”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830.md?page=30)