# US Capitol under siege **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830 "2021-01-06T20:27:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/581 "2021-01-10T17:43:02Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > A name to keep in mind, Mike Nearman, a Republican Representative from Oregon, who, during the riots, [opened a door to allow the rioters into the Capitol](https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/01/video-clearly-shows-rep-mike-nearman-helping-right-wing-demonstrators-breach-oregon-capitol.html). Fuck him. Not the D.C. Capitol, as others have said. But when the cops arrive, see once again the privilege in action in the manner of their response. They try to eject the insurrectionists from the lobby, and and at least one of them is aggressively pushing back against the cops and grappling with them. The response from the cops is just to push back to push him out of the doorway. Does anyone doubt that every one of those cops would have immediately drawn his weapon if that were a black man? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/582 "2021-01-10T17:46:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Doesn’t matter. They can rot in jail until the final appeals are done. No bail.- There’s some space available at Guantanamo, amirite? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/583 "2021-01-10T17:51:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I’m not sure how many people ended up inside the building. It was at least hundreds, and may have been thousands, but I’ll bet that a significant portion of them were just idiots following the crowd. They were breaking into the fucking Capitol! That isn’t “idiotic”-_that is a major felony!_ There was no possible way they didn’t know that, and there was no possible way they didn’t hear what was being shouted as they pushed their way past the police and _broke_ windows and doors. This was a ghod damn insurrection and they are insurrectionists. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/584 "2021-01-10T17:52:52Z")
Has a “madness of crowds” defense ever worked? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/585 "2021-01-10T17:59:52Z")
When the jury and the crowd are both white and/or the same political persuasion, sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/586 "2021-01-10T18:02:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > They were breaking into the fucking Capitol! That isn’t “idiotic”- _that is a major felony!_ And I have not once suggested that they shouldn’t be charged with a felony. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/587 "2021-01-10T18:05:59Z")
[quote=“mhendo, post:556, topic:929830”]but I’ll bet that a significant portion of them were just idiots following the crowd. [/quote] That doesn’t sound like push for a felony conviction to me. It sounds like an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/588 "2021-01-10T18:08:29Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > And I have not once suggested that they shouldn’t be charged with a felony. You’re starting to sound like @D_Anconia. It’s not a good look. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/589 "2021-01-10T18:11:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That doesn’t sound like push for a felony conviction to me. It sounds like an excuse. If you would read for context, you wouyld recognize that it was part of a conversation about charges like “accessory to murder” and “felony murder” and “seditious insurrection.” I believe that every person who entered the building and can be identified should be charged. I think that there will be justification for charging some people with murder; some with conspiracy to commit murder; some with seditious conspiracy; and some with a whole variety of other charges. But these things should be carefully investigated and evaluated based on what each individual person actually said and did, to the greatest extent that this can be determined. > [@Riemann](#): > > You’re starting to sound like @D_Anconia. It’s not a good look. Yeah, go fuck yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/590 "2021-01-10T18:25:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > person actually said and did, to the greatest extent that this can be determined. “I just found these zip-tie restraints on the floor when I stormed congress in my helmet and armor. Honest! I certainly did not intend on taking hostages and tying them up, nosiree!” Well off you go then! ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/591 "2021-01-10T18:29:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “I just found these zip-tie restraints on the floor when I stormed congress in my helmet and armor. Honest! I certainly did not intend on taking hostages and tying them up, nosiree!” > > Well off you go then! Look, I understand that people are going to disagree with me strongly on this issue, and that’s fine, but this is just a dishonest reading of my argument. I’m all for these evaluations using common sense. If the guy had zip ties, then intent can reasonably be inferred from that. Nothing I have said here supports an argument that we just take the rioters’ word for what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/592 "2021-01-10T18:29:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “I just found these zip-tie restraints on the floor when I stormed congress in my helmet and armor. Honest! I certainly did not intend on taking hostages and tying them up, nosiree!” As I said, reminiscent of: > [@A charge of voting fraud has been brought! (Against a Trump voter, natch)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-charge-of-voting-fraud-has-been-brought-against-a-trump-voter-natch/928683/14): > > “Furthering President Trump’s campaign” doesn’t necessarily mean he actually voted “Trump” on the fraudulent ballot. ---
**Author:** ![Skypist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skypist/32/169_2.png) [@Skypist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skypist)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/593 "2021-01-10T18:31:24Z")
I want to know who that _other_ zip tie guy was, the one wearing all black with a hat and some kind of face covering while climbing over chairs. I’m curious to know if there’s any chance investigators can find out or if there are other images of him. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/594 "2021-01-10T18:34:10Z")
Look; we all know there are many fine people on both sides. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/595 "2021-01-10T18:35:50Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Look, I understand that people are going to disagree with me strongly on this issue, and that’s fine, but this is just a dishonest reading of my argument. It’s not a question of dishonesty, or even of disagreeing with you, in the sense that nobody (I hope) is suggesting that we suspend the criminal justice system and hand out ten year sentences to everyone in the crowd without evidence. But in a situation where a coup attempt is being actively _down_played by half the country, where violent insurrectionists were handled with kid gloves by colluding law enforcement, where the far greater concern is that the response to sedition and a violent attack on our seat of government might just be a slap on the wrist - your apparent focus on taking care that we don’t treat these people _too harshly_ is a little incongruous. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/596 "2021-01-10T18:36:37Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Look, I understand that people are going to disagree with me strongly on this issue, and that’s fine, but this is just a dishonest reading of my argument. I’m all for these evaluations using common sense. If the guy had zip ties, then intent can reasonably be inferred from that. Nothing I have said here supports an argument that we just take the rioters’ word for what they were doing. FYI. > **[Trumpists intended to take members of Congress hostage, hold show trials,...](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006463)** > > Approaching four hours after the Capitol Building was overrun by Trumpist insurrectionists, police are finally beginning to move in force, backed by National Guard forces from both D.C. and Virginia. However, at least one improvised explosive... [https://twitter.com/Rebexem/status/1346924689101213696](https://twitter.com/Rebexem/status/1346924689101213696) ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/597 "2021-01-10T18:50:00Z")
@mhendo to add - I’ll start worrying about whether the insurrectionist mob is going to be punished _too harshly_ when the guy who incited the fucking coup attempt isn’t still technically running the country - because his enablers _still_ insist it would be inappropriate to remove him. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/598 "2021-01-10T18:58:17Z")
On the other hand we don’t want to overreact and start ignoring civil liberties out of fear and anger. Every rioter who stepped into the capitol should be arrested and charged with trespassing at the least. Some should be charged with murder, but not all should be charged with murder. During the demonstrations over the summer Trump’s response was to call for the arrest and punishment for all. He signed an executive order to increase the punishment. We need to be better than Trump. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/599 "2021-01-10T19:01:09Z")
The felony murder rule only applies to certain people. To determine if you are one of those people you’ll need the following; a brown paper bag. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2021, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/600 "2021-01-10T19:01:12Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > On the other hand That’s not “on the other hand” to what I said, since I was not remotely advocating ignoring civil liberties. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830.md?page=31)