# US Capitol under siege **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830 "2021-01-06T20:27:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/741 "2021-01-11T14:45:25Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > “You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theatre unless the place is really on fire. Just the idea of being in a crowded movie theater fills me with dread. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/742 "2021-01-11T14:49:41Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > “This shall not stand! The plural is _coups d’état_ !” The _Senators elect_ who are _heirs apparent_ to the Georgia seats will ensure Democratic control of the Senate as well as the House, so there will be fewer disturbances in those _bodies politic_. The new _sergeants at arms_ will hopefully do a better job too. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/743 "2021-01-11T14:55:23Z")
That’s shitty. 🙂 > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > I think that given the totality of the circumstances, the Stop The Steal rally and the March To Save America were way too incendiary to be allowed to happen at the time and place that they did. Having a protest on the National Mall with a defined area allowed for it? Standard operating procedure. Not too incendiary. Instructing that crowd to go to the Capitol and to be wild? To show strength? Incendiary. A call for insurrection. Plans to cause violence and to sneak in guns? Criminal. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/744 "2021-01-11T15:15:14Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > There is an common exception to free speech laws that every schoolchild knows. “You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theatre unless the place is really on fire. > > That can’t be interpreted too narrowly, it applies to words other than “fire” in places other than a crowded theatre. It means you aren’t allowed to say things to a crowd of people that scare and alarm them, with a likelihood that it will cause a panic. Your argument here is terrible. First, if a person is making an argument against free speech in the modern world, and their first resort is the hoary old “fire in a crowded theater” quote from the _Schenck_ case, then you know that they basically have no idea how free speech jurisprudence actually works in the United States. If you want to cite Holmes’ argument in _Schenck_, then you are aligning yourself with a pretty unsavory decision. Do you know what Holmes was doing when he wrote about fires in crowded theaters? He was upholding a prison sentence imposed on a guy for distributing leaflets encouraging people to oppose the military draft. It’s an absolutely terrible ruling, completely odious, and is understood as such by most modern constitutional scholars. Holmes himself effectively repudiated his own majority opinion a few years later. Even more importantly, for legal purposes, _Schenck_ was overturned by _Brandenburg v. Ohio_ in the 1960s, and no possible interpretation of the free speech standards set by the courts would disallow a protest outside the houses of Congress, no matter what happened to be going on inside at the time. In fact, the first amendment to the constitution not only establishes broad freedom of speech rights, but it explicitly establishes the right to assemble and petition the government about your grievances. The right to assemble does include the word “peaceably,” and if and when protesters become rioters they should absolutely be brought to account. Also, if someone makes a speech at the rally that is " “directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action AND is likely to incite or produce such action” (the standard established in _Brandenburg_; emphasis mine), then they can also be charged for that. But the simple act of organizing and staging a protest is not, by itself, anywhere near the standard for unlawful speech. I’m also not sure how the simple presence of a protest can reasonably “scare and alarm” the members of Congress. Unless they’re watching on TV, they wouldn’t even be able to hear the protest from inside their chambers. It’s a different story once people start actually trying to invade the building, but that’s not what we’re talking about here. You’re arguing that simply having a rally near the Capitol on the day that the electoral college vote was tallied should, by itself, be criminal, and that’s just nuts. Do you realize what the consequences might be if we adopted your standard? I’m constantly amazed at how many people on my own side of politics apparently haven’t learned the lessons of the past. If you give government authorities the power to control and regulate and punish speech in the way that you are suggesting here, then as soon as people that we don’t like get in to power, it’s lefties like you and me who are likely to be the first ones in cuffs, or dragged in front of a committee and questioned about our un-American politics. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/745 "2021-01-11T15:36:36Z")
I guess I didn’t make myself clear. The goal (for want of a better word) wasn’t to have Trump certified rather than Biden, it was **to prevent the joint session from certifying at all**. Then the House would determine the next President, using the one-vote-per-delegation rule. Or to use the tired old formula: 1. Scupper the joint session (kidnapping/killing Pence & Pelosi is an added bonus); 2. ???; 3. Trump wins!!! Whether this scenario plays out in the real world is beside the point; this is all happening in their fevered imaginations. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/746 "2021-01-11T15:54:40Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@Andy\_L](#): > > > > Attorneys General > > Notaries Public!! Notaries sojak! Potrzebie! ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/747 "2021-01-11T17:03:56Z")
As a person whose cat had an unfortunate early morning, I can attest that feces are difficult to entirely eradicate. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/748 "2021-01-11T18:13:37Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > > [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > > > “You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theatre unless the place is really on fire. > > Just the idea of being in a crowded movie theater fills me with dread. It would probably also be wrong to shout “covid” in a crowded theater. But not outside it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/749 "2021-01-11T19:23:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It would probably also be wrong to shout “covid” in a crowded theater. But not outside it 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Hatchie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hatchie/32/3983_2.png) [@Hatchie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hatchie)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/750 "2021-01-11T19:53:18Z")
> [@OttoDaFe](#): > > 1. Scupper the joint session (kidnapping/killing Pence & Pelosi is an added bonus); > 2. ???; > 3. Trump wins!!! Part 2 is, America’s patriots jump up, say “By golly they’re right! Time for a revolution!”, grab their Second Amendment solutions, and rise up en masse (or is that ens masse?). Wow! 1776 and stuff like that there! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/751 "2021-01-11T19:58:36Z")
_Schott’s Original Miscellany_ lists 51 examples of “compound plurals”. The coolest ones, to me, are _daddies-long-legs_, _Doctors Who_, _men-of-war_ and _passersby_. I would personally use these terms but not go out of my way to do so, nor probably bother correcting someone less precise. I’ve never even seen a group of daddies-long-legs. Bonus if you can fit this in a debate about disillusioned or delusional “Patriots” acting on seeming advice from Trump or Guiliani. /endhijack ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/752 "2021-01-11T20:04:41Z")
You don’t live in the South then. During breeding season (I assume), they cluster in HUGE groups. I’ve personally seen one “cluster” that was 3+ FEET in diameter and in the middle you couldn’t see any of the wall they were on., they were piled so thick. I’m not scared of the little guys, but it was freaky to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/753 "2021-01-11T20:05:31Z")
Canada, unlike Australia, is not exactly famous for nor conducive to arachnidae. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/754 "2021-01-11T20:10:08Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > _Schott’s Original Miscellany_ lists 51 examples of “compound plurals”. The coolest ones, to me, are _daddies-long-legs_ , _Doctors Who_ , _men-of-war_ and _passersby_ . Batons Rouge? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/755 "2021-01-11T20:11:45Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > You don’t live in the South then. During breeding season (I assume), they cluster in HUGE groups. I’ve personally seen one “cluster” that was 3+ FEET in diameter and in the middle you couldn’t see any of the wall they were on., they were piled so thick. I’m not scared of the little guys, but it was freaky to see that. I can just imagine the locker room talk that followed that: _Oh, man, I got laid so much last night!_ _Awesome, dude! Who’d ya make it with?_ _I - - I’m not sure…_ ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/756 "2021-01-11T20:11:45Z")
Is that near Shrevesport? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/757 "2021-01-11T20:14:01Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > You don’t live in the South then. During breeding season (I assume), they cluster in HUGE groups. I’ve personally seen one “cluster” that was 3+ FEET in diameter and in the middle you couldn’t see any of the wall they were on., they were piled so thick. I’m not scared of the little guys, but it was freaky to see that.- Oh God yes! They are creeeepy MFs, although harmless. Unless you die of freaking out. I went to an event in the country one time where the bathroom was in a small outbuilding. It wasn’t an outhouse exactly-- the bathtub was in there, too, and a sink. But up in the corner was this ginormous, pulsating cluster of the little bastards. Very hard to concentrate on the business at hand. \ There is a link to a video in the spoiler box. Watch at your own risk. You will never be able to get this picture out of your brain. [https://youtu.be/dNAk6oIKAjI](https://youtu.be/dNAk6oIKAjI) /really the end of hijack ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/758 "2021-01-11T20:41:05Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It would probably also be wrong to shout “covid” in a crowded theater. But not outside it. Not if you’re fixing the wiring. [https://www.covid.com/](https://www.covid.com/) ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/759 "2021-01-11T21:33:33Z")
Chairs longs! (The Young Ones fans may get it.) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830/760 "2021-01-11T21:33:52Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > There is a link to a video in the spoiler box. Watch at your own risk. You will never be able to get this picture out of your brain. > > [https://youtu.be/dNAk6oIKAjI](https://youtu.be/dNAk6oIKAjI) > > /really the end of hijack I was gonna link that same video; it’s one of the best DDL videos on YouTube. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-capitol-under-siege/929830.md?page=39)