# US Citizen in Pakistan gets kidnapped, begs Obama for help **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 7, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165 "2012-05-07T14:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/1 "2012-05-07T14:29:41Z")
[Warren Weinstein](http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/world/asia/pakistan-captured-american/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) was working in Pakistan. Had body guards and everything so he’s really a lot more sympathetic than random college kids romping through Iran or spray painting cars in Singapore. Al Q is demanding a bunch of prisoner releases and other US actions in exchange for his release. Wouldn’t it be great if President Obama, should he entertain the faux pas of recognizing any communication from a terrorist organization, responded with, “How about you release him right now, and we don’t kill everyone you want released and tie them to the bombs we’ll continue to drop on your leaders & allies?” And then followed through. Dude would OWN the redneck voters. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/2 "2012-05-07T14:45:55Z")
As much as I despise the man, I think you are right. A little retribution and saying fuck you to AQ goes a long way. Let’s hope he doesn’t.😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/3 "2012-05-07T15:07:02Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > As much as I despise the man, I think you are right. A little retribution and saying fuck you to AQ goes a long way. > > Let’s hope he doesn’t.😃 I think the last pres who would have had the balls to say it was Reagan. Dunno if he would have DONE it, but I could see him orchestrating an “open mike moment” to get the message out…unofficially. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/4 "2012-05-07T15:27:04Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > And then followed through. Dude would OWN the redneck voters. Redneck checking in. No, he wouldn’t. It would improve my opinion of him a little, though, admittedly. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/5 "2012-05-07T15:28:02Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I think the last pres who would have had the balls to say it was Reagan. Dunno if he would have DONE it, but I could see him orchestrating an “open mike moment” to get the message out…unofficially. Well, when Reagan was confronted by a hostage situation, he responded by trading arms for the hostages. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/6 "2012-05-07T15:45:29Z")
I don’t know what you’re trying to pull, **Dewey Finn** , but you should know by now that facts have no place in discussions of Saint Ronnie. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/7 "2012-05-07T15:45:48Z")
Yeah, Reagan is not really the poster boy for being tough with terrorists, in addition to paying ransom, he also pulled the US out of Beirut after a terrorist attack. The incident is one that bin Laden pointed to as evidence that the US was a paper tiger and would back down if subjected to more attacks. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/8 "2012-05-07T15:51:15Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Redneck checking in. No, he wouldn’t. > > It would improve my opinion of him a little, though, admittedly. It wouldn’t improve my opinion. It’s a rash thing to say, and pointless. The Al Queda crowd would love to get tied to bombs and dropped. That would prove how evil America is and how great these men were to die for their cause. A simple “We don’t negotiate with terrorists” would be what I’d want any president to say, if they said anything. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/9 "2012-05-07T21:29:08Z")
Obviously, the terrorists behaved stupidly.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/10 "2012-05-07T21:40:31Z")
Obama ordered the killings of the three Somali pirates. He got Bin Laden. Regan pulled out of Beirut after an attack, and sold weapons to terrorists, basically giving in to kidnappers. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/11 "2012-05-07T21:50:17Z")
> [@PandaBear77](#): > > Redneck checking in. No, he wouldn’t. > > It would improve my opinion of him a little, though, admittedly. Yeah, bombing terrorists is great and all, but it’s not like it’s gonna make him any whiter. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/12 "2012-05-08T03:06:32Z")
As much as that might have been a low blow for PandaBear, I had to laugh at its implication for many Obama haters. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/13 "2012-05-08T16:29:51Z")
I didn’t really intend for this to be a divisive thing, or even to imply that I would not in fact be horrified if BO actually had an open mike event in which he muttered something in the spirit of the OP. Rationally, I know Al Q is a complex problem that requires something more sophisticated than a good ass-whuppin, and I also know that anyone who does not support BO today, is unlikely to support him in November no matter what he does. It’d be satisfying, like seeing a smart-mouth getting his nose swatted, and entirely unproductive. But I can’t be the rare exception who can entertain both rational and irrational desires, can I? Sorry. Just venting some completely hipocrytical frustration. It’s not so much that I think the USA and BO are paragons of glory and goodness (Although I think the net effect of both is generally positive), I just think it’d be nice if people could look at someone/something they disagree with and simply disagree with it without getting all emotional and hateful about it. Whatever. I give up trying to use humor and hyperbole around here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/14 "2012-05-09T13:08:58Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Well, when Reagan was confronted by a hostage situation, he responded by trading arms for the hostages. > [@Enginerd](#): > > I don’t know what you’re trying to pull, **Dewey Finn** , but you should know by now that facts have no place in discussions of Saint Ronnie. Bullshit. It’s certainly a plausible hypothesis, but it’s by no means an established fact. [Here is a link](http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/PS157/assignment%20files%20public/TOWER%20EXCERPTS.htm) to some comprehensive excerpts from the Tower Commission Report. If you believe these excerpts are incomplete, [here’s the whole fucking thing.](http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Tower_Commission_report.html?id=5iy1Ar-soBEC) Its findings were not that Reagan traded arms for hostages. If you disagree, please point to the spot that supports your contrary claim. What it did find was: > [@](#): > > The implementation of the initiative was never subjected to a rigorous review. LtCol North appears to have kept VADM Poindexter fully informed of his activities. In addition, VADM Poindexter, LtCol North, and the C.I.A. officials involved apparently apprised Director Casey of many of the operational details. But LtCol North and his operation functioned largely outside the oribit of the U.S. Government. Their activities were not subject to criticial reviews of any kind. > . > . > . > The Board was unable to reach a conclusive judgment about whether the 1985 shipments of arms to Iran were approved in advance by the President. And it goes on to correctly point out that what’s fairly attributed to President Reagan is a failure of responsible management: > [@](#): > > The President did not seem to be aware of the way in which the operation was implemented and the full consequences of U.S. participation. > > The President’s expressed concern for the safety of both the hostages and the Iranians who could have been at risk may have been conveyed in a manner so as to inhibit the full functioning of the system. > > The President’s management style is to put the principal responsibility for policy review and implementation on the shoulders of his advisors. Nevertheless, with such a complex, high-risk operation and so much at stake, the President should have insured that the N.S.C. system did not fail him. He did not force his policy to undergo the most critical review of which the N.S.C. participants and the process were capable. At no time did he insist upon accountability and performance review. Had the President chosen to drive the N.S.C. system, the outcome could well have been different. As it was, the most powerful features of the N.S.C. system - providing comprehensive analysis, alternatives and follow-up - were not utilized. Why do you post on a board whose mission is to fight ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/15 "2012-05-09T13:43:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why do you post on a board whose mission is to fight ignorance? Calm down, you’re gonna bust somethin’. 🙂 I must admit, my first thought was that Obama should begin targeting particular terrorists who kidnap Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/16 "2012-05-09T13:58:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Its findings were not that Reagan traded arms for hostages. If you disagree, please point to the spot that supports your contrary claim. Well, there is this little excerpt from a different source: > [@President Reagan](#): > > **A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not. As the Tower board reported, what began as a strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading arms for hostages.** This runs counter to my own beliefs, to administration policy, and to the original strategy we had in mind. There are reasons why it happened, but no excuses. It was a mistake. I undertook the original Iran initiative in order to develop relations with those who might assume leadership in a post-Khomeini government. Sure sounds like he took responsibility for trading arms for hostages. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/17 "2012-05-09T14:35:58Z")
“Here we can see how our enemies are so despicable they will force a man, who knows under what compulsion, to beg for his life. That’s not how we deal with these issues. We have reason to believe they intend to kill him anyway and are merely playing a cruel game with him, his family and our people. Any further demand or any action on their part other than his immediate and unconditional release will be evidence of that. We’re not playing along. Any terrorist who goes around intending to kill Americans must know, we will seek by all means to kill him first. That is all we will say for the public record.” On the side-issue: As his quote shows Reagan, a politician with good political advisors, knew that the people would respond better to the Big Boss saying “our intentions were good but things got out of hand” than to hearing him try lawyering it out over every jot and tittle – that’s a job for the supporting cast. Besides as a last-termer he knew he could afford to direct some of the heat on himself. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/18 "2012-05-10T05:51:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, there is this little excerpt from a different source: > Sure sounds like he took responsibility for trading arms for hostages. Reality has a well known liberal bias. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/19 "2012-05-10T11:00:10Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I think the last pres who would have had the balls to say it was Reagan. Dunno if he would have DONE it, but I could see him orchestrating an “open mike moment” to get the message out…unofficially. Ronnie did in fact face a situation like this. He responded by sending tons of weapons to the Iranians to buy peace. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165/20 "2012-05-10T16:27:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Well, there is this little excerpt from a different source: And another, from someone who held the same job: > [@Harry Truman](#): > > The buck stops here. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizen-in-pakistan-gets-kidnapped-begs-obama-for-help/621165.md?page=2)