# US citizens subject to US law anywhere in the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 30, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848 "2011-12-30T17:45:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/21 "2011-12-31T22:44:13Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I don’t think it’s actually “having sex with minors overseas” that gets them, it’s “leaving the country for the purpose of having sex with minors” that is the actual letter of the law. It’s a fine distinction, to be sure, but I suppose if one plays one’s cards right and doesn’t, say, come home on a flight from Pnomh Penh with a laptop full of child porn, he could get away with it pretty easily. Though it seems to have changed, I interpret that as meaning that, under that law, if you found yourself in Cambodia on a business trip, and called your brother from Phnom Penh and he told you, “When in Rome…” and you decided then and there that it wouldn’t be so bad to try sex with a child, then you wouldn’t have broken US law because the intent was formed after you had already left the US. It is something that could be a minefield in terms of actual prosecution. I actually didn’t intend to try Poutine until I went to Canada and found a diner offering it. How could a prosecutor in the US ever hope to prove it one way or another? I didn’t email my parents and say, “Mom and dad, going to Canada to try poutine. Will send postcard.” ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/22 "2011-12-31T23:04:18Z")
Of course, the “conspiracy” angle often applies. You can conspire offshore to break laws in the USA. The US has used this sort of law, too, to extradite people - most recently from Britain (if it has happened yet) and Australia - for computer hacking. When things happen on the internet, where does it actually happen? ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/23 "2011-12-31T23:13:28Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > But don’t light that Cohiba up just yet, or buy those 222s. Once an American is within the borders of the US, he or she is subject to the jurisdiction of the US. Importing Cuban cigars, 222s with codeine, or (I’d imagine) even a receipt from the “Kids R Us” brothel in a foreign land, will land an American in trouble upon re-entering the US. Just to be very clear, when I did buy a bottle of the so-called 222’s in Toronto, I used a few and left the rest in my Dopp kit and brought them home with me. Technically that was against the law. Did I leave USA to buy codeine? Naw, I was working and got myself into some terrific back pain due to my injury. It was the best item for the job up there. I wouldn’t lie to a Customs agent and plead ignorance, rather if one picked the bottle out of my Dopp kit I’d admit I bought it in Toronto. And they’d throw it in the garbage. I’ve zero fear of being thrown in the pokey if I were to buy another bottle of those tablets and had some left when returning home. But, to the OP, can I be prosecuted for having purchased a controlled substance- a narcotic ( Codeine ) without a prescription? I would say no fucking way. I was in Canada. If I’d been videotaped buying them at the Shoppers Drug World, used them in Toronto and threw the rest of the pills away and crossed the border with nothing in hand, I really cannot believe the US Customs or DEA could prosecute me for having bought 222’s in Toronto and having used them but NOT having returned with them. Am I correct here? As a side note, those little suckers worked just fine to take the edge off of the severe pain. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/24 "2012-01-01T09:07:16Z")
> [@grude](#): > > Sarbanes–Oxley Act at least according to wiki set new standards and laws for the boards of US publically owned corporations, are you saying these standards still apply if one of the board members of a US corp is outside the US(citizen or not) or that S-O applies even to a US citizen who is a member of the board of an overseas corporation? SO applies to US citizens residing abroad. I’m pretty sure it applies to more than just board members of US publically owned corporations. At least, when I was working abroad up until 18 months ago, there were plenty of colleagues concerned about SO compliance. Finance/accounting types as well as sales managers. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/25 "2012-01-01T09:50:04Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > This isn’t completely true. South Africa will tax you on your worldwide income only if it considers you a resident of South Africa. When I moved to the US in 2004 I didn’t need to pay South African taxes on my US salary. Source: “Tax Brochure for Non-Residents” from [http://www.sars.gov.za/home.asp?pid=44773](http://www.sars.gov.za/home.asp?pid=44773). On the other hand, is South Africa one of those countries that curtails residency rights or revoke citizenship outright if one lives outside the country a certain number of years? I remember a recent discussion on this board about countries have that policy. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/26 "2012-01-01T10:33:10Z")
3 types of laws: (1) Physical border jurisdiction. Generally, no, US laws only apply within US borders. Most US laws. (2) Nationality jurisdiction. These laws apply to US Citizens committing crimes or US citizens who a crime has been committed against wherever it happened in the world. (e.g. a US citizen who committed a sex crime in Thailand). (3) Universal Jurisdiction. These laws apply to anyone, anywhere (e.g., France can prosecute anyone for torture committed by anyone, whether or not the person tortured, or doing the torturing was French.) In the US, most are 1’s, a couple are 2’s. None are 3’s. > [@grude](#): > > It appeared to be inspired by a very specific case, but could apply to something as silly as going to Canada to buy some Tylenol with codeine. All the best songs are about Texas, Women, or Codeine. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/27 "2012-01-01T15:08:03Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > None are 3’s. No, that’s not correct. [Maritime piracy](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sec_18_00001651----000-.html) is a universal jurisdiction offence under US law: [QUOTE=TITLE 18 \> PART I \> CHAPTER 81 \> § 1651] § 1651. PIRACY UNDER LAW OF NATIONS Whoever, on the high seas, commits the crime of piracy as defined by the law of nations, and is afterwards brought into or found in the United States, shall be imprisoned for life. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848/28 "2012-01-01T18:51:56Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Is this not circular relative to the OP? The OP is essentially asking whether you are subject to US jurisdiction when physically outside the US. One would assume diplomats or troops overseas might have a difficult time explaining the odd Cuban cigar, but ordinary citizens that do not enjoy any special legal status when overseas should not have a problem. > > I’m sure there are other issues. Plotting with a foreign power against the US government whilst overseas is not exactly going to be viewed well on your return. I’m sure that the last part is the rub, no? When you return to the US, you have acceded to its jurisdiction and can be prosecuted for toking on that Cohiba overseas. Otherwise your last hypothetical couldn’t happen. “Sure, your honor, I plotted with Juan Garzo Santiago in Chile for the violent overthrow of our government, but I was not under the jurisdiction of the United States at the time. Now that I am home, and no longer plotting, I cannot be charged with a crime.” I believe that U.S. Citizens are always “subject to U.S. jurisdiction” even though in the vast majority of circumstances the U.S. declines to regulate things that are legal in a foreign country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-citizens-subject-to-us-law-anywhere-in-the-world/607848.md?page=1)