# US diplomat's wife kills UK teenager, claims diplomatic immunity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400 "2019-10-07T07:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/702 "2021-12-15T20:37:54Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Indeed, a Judge has to carefully regulate and interview the jurors in such trials to make sure they do not have any preconceived ideas of guilt or innocence. It is like that in ALL Felony US trials. Sometimes they have to change the venue to make sure that happens or go through hundreds of potential jurors. I am surprised you did not know that. Never been on a jury? Are you under the impression that the UK is incapable of the same sort of thing? 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/703 "2021-12-15T20:38:43Z")
Clearly yes. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/704 "2021-12-15T20:44:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Clearly yes Because…? To be clear, the UK has its own methods of addressing jury bias. I’m surprised that you don’t already know this. ---
**Author:** ![paulmarkj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@paulmarkj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulmarkj)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/705 "2021-12-27T19:42:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I would like to see a fair trial, which is impossible now. Sorry, that is not good enough. That is a trick used by many defendents and cannot be allowed. Of course it is possible to have a fair trial. Reverse the situation: Brit kills US teenager in Florida, but the UK refuse to extradite, then see who believes you cannot have a fair trial. Lose all biases and be fair. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/706 "2021-12-27T20:14:50Z")
Well if the DP was on the table the UK would refuse to extradite. If the adult (and remember, the victim here was an adult man, not a child) was killed in a accident by a OK diplomat they would also refuse. Here in the US, heavy publicity will get a change of venue. The Defense will argue that a fair trial is impossible, and often a judge will agree to move the case to another county , etc. > **[Change of Venue in a Criminal Case](https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/change-venue-criminal-case.html)** > > Sometimes the defense tries to get the defendant's case out of one court and into another. So, not only is it not a “trick” (“The ability to change venue is related to the constitutional right to a fair trial,…” and yes, it can and often is allowed. ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2021, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/707 "2021-12-27T22:31:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > (and remember, the victim here was an adult man, not a child) What is the point of this comment? The poster you are reply to said teenager which is correct. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2021, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/708 "2021-12-30T04:20:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Here in the US, heavy publicity will get a change of venue. The Defense will argue that a fair trial is impossible, and often a judge will agree to move the case to another county , etc. Yes, and English courts have had exactly that same power since 1856. I think they’re used to the concept of a change of venue to avoid prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/709 "2022-01-14T13:00:40Z")
> **[Harry Dunn hearing ‘vacated’ to enable ongoing discussions with Sacoolas](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jan/14/harry-dunn-hearing-vacated-to-enable-ongoing-discussions-with-anne-sacoolas)** > > Crown Prosecution Service issues statement saying talks with alleged killer’s legal team to continue ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/710 "2022-02-08T18:20:38Z")
DrDeth, you are completely off the deep end here. “There’s no proof of anything! This is a political prosecution.” “There’s proof, but the defendant won’t face trial.” “Because she has diplomatic immunity! Therefore, the crime never occurred.” (Not actual quotes, but pretty damn close.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/711 "2022-02-11T21:28:58Z")
1. In America, and in the UK, you are innocent until proven guilty. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is a political prosecution 1. It is now. 2. She does. Even the UK says so. 3. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Therefore, the crime never occurred.” I never said anything even vaguely like that. There certainly seems to have been a tragic accident. A man died, while riding a bike, in a traffic accident,. The driver of the car had diplomatic immunity, and was ordered out of the UK by the USA. The parents, in their quest for revenge, have made this into a political issue, even after getting a civil settlement. ---
**Author:** ![its\_the\_daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/712 "2022-09-29T19:58:57Z")
Bump again. > **[Harry Dunn crash: Anne Sacoolas appears in court](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-63076171)** > > Anne Sacoolas is accused of causing death by dangerous driving following a collision in 2019. As predicted, it’ll go to the Old Bailey (thats the Central Criminal Court). But how it will be conducted is still to be decided. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/713 "2022-10-20T14:18:02Z")
And she has pleaded guilty > **[Anne Sacoolas pleads guilty to causing death of Harry Dunn](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/oct/20/anne-sacoolas-admits-causing-death-of-harry-dunn)** > > US citizen admits causing death of 19-year-old in road crash outside RAF Croughton in Northamptonshire in 2019 ---
**Author:** ![its\_the\_daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bb73d2/32.png) [@its\_the\_daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/its_the_daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/714 "2022-10-20T18:11:13Z")
That’s it: Not Guilty to Causing Death by Dangerous Driving Guilty to Causing Death by Careless Driving. A typical British legal compromise, which would no doubt have been followed if she were a British citizen. So **not** a ‘political’ trial after all. Will she attend for sentencing? Probably not. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/715 "2022-12-01T14:43:10Z")
Sentencing due next Thursday: > **[Anne Sacoolas's sentencing to be televised after postponement](https://www.northantslive.news/news/northamptonshire-news/driver-anne-sacoolass-sentencing-televised-7882564)** > > Harry Dunn's killer's sentencing will be broadcast next Thursday ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/716 "2022-12-08T14:55:37Z")
By-the-minute reporting (livestream cameras will only be running for the judge’s sentencing remarks): > **[As it happened: Harry Dunn: Sacoolas gets suspended sentence over teenager's...](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/63748369)** > > US citizen Anne Sacoolas is given an eight month suspended sentence for causing the death of teenager Harry Dunn in 2019. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/717 "2022-12-08T16:40:27Z")
8 months suspended for 12, and a 12-month ban from driving. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/718 "2022-12-08T16:41:05Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > a 12-month ban from driving. As in, driving in the UK? I doubt that will be an issue for her… ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/719 "2022-12-08T16:46:05Z")
The total effect, pretty much, is that she should stay out of the UK for 12 months. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/720 "2022-12-08T17:36:35Z")
I haven’t seen any news describing how the legal case could even proceed at all. Has the current administration quietly withdraw the assertion of diplomatic immunity? A negotiated position that avoids the question of privilege at all? The comvicted choosing to cooperate with the process without the U. S. government’s permission? ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2022, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/721 "2022-12-09T08:06:53Z")
The US authorities told her not to appear in person, but since she was pleading guilty anyway the court agreed to her appearing by video link where needed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=37)