# US diplomat's wife kills UK teenager, claims diplomatic immunity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400 "2019-10-07T07:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/81 "2019-10-09T00:42:07Z")
[Bricker’s staff report on Diplomatic Immunity.](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2228/whats-the-story-on-diplomatic-immunity/) \*First and foremost, the diplomat is still covered by the laws of his home country, and may be prosecuted under those laws for any crimes he commits in the host country … To emphasize, under no circumstances is the diplomat free from all legal constraints: even if his host country can’t get him, his home country always can. \* So, USA probably won’t waive immunity for her, but possibly could prosecute her themselves. I hope this is what happens, but somehow I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/82 "2019-10-09T01:10:16Z")
This case might be instructive: [2009 Singapore Romanian diplomat incident - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Singapore_Romanian_diplomat_incident) Romanian diplomat kills pedestrians in Singapore, gets tried and convicted in Romania, dies in prison ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/83 "2019-10-09T09:40:24Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > This case might be instructive: [2009 Singapore Romanian diplomat incident - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Singapore_Romanian_diplomat_incident) > > Romanian diplomat kills pedestrians in Singapore, gets tried and convicted in Romania, dies in prison Yep. Here is what SHOULD happen: She should be tried (and almost certainly convicted) on two charges: 1. Negligent homicide. 2. Making a false police statement. She did, in writing, confirm that she would not be leaving the UK. Then, with no notice, she just upped and left. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/84 "2019-10-09T12:27:34Z")
If she signed some promise to return, that could be a charge but I have a hard time believing an unfulfilled promise is “giving a false police statement”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/85 "2019-10-09T12:51:40Z")
Yeah, it would be reasonable to try her for negligent homicide, but I can’t see a charge of “making false statements to police”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/86 "2019-10-09T14:15:16Z")
This is starting to remind me of a long-ago crazy ex-girlfriend: “It’s not that you killed somebody — _I’m mad that you lied about it!!_” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/87 "2019-10-09T15:39:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > (maybe we could trade her for Julian Assange?). […] Trump seems to really admire BoJo. And here is a great reason why the US should just stick with established policy. You may think a prisoner exchange to help out Johnson and Trump’s approval ratings is a good idea but I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/88 "2019-10-09T17:30:57Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > Yep. > > Here is what SHOULD happen: > She should be tried (and almost certainly convicted) on two charges: > > 1. Negligent homicide. > 2. Making a false police statement. She did, in writing, confirm that she would not be leaving the UK. Then, with no notice, she just upped and left. “Making a false police statement” means falsely accusing someone else of a crime, not just saying something to the police that isn’t true. In England and Wales, it can also mean falsely claiming to have knowledge relevant to a crime. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/89 "2019-10-09T17:39:07Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > … > > Reports say she was driving for some distance on the wrong side of the road. The victim came over the brow of a hill and so had no opportunity to avoid her car. > > So, she has claimed diplomatic immunity and scuttled off home, which of course she can. But should the US do _something_? Send her back? Prosecute her at home? … I am against jail terms for accidents, even if caused by negligence. Even here in the uSA. I only want criminals, people who had criminal intent in jail. She will likely lose her job. And the USA should write a check. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/90 "2019-10-09T17:55:11Z")
I can’t believe the fuss over this matter, when there’s such a [simple and effective](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwC_IaY3BmY&t=0m6s) way of dealing with it. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/91 "2019-10-09T18:18:39Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > [Bricker’s staff report on Diplomatic Immunity.](https://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2228/whats-the-story-on-diplomatic-immunity/) > \*First and foremost, the diplomat is still covered by the laws of his home country, and may be prosecuted under those laws for any crimes he commits in the host country … To emphasize, under no circumstances is the diplomat free from all legal constraints: even if his host country can’t get him, his home country always can. \* > > So, USA probably won’t waive immunity for her, but possibly could prosecute her themselves. I hope this is what happens, but somehow I doubt it. Could they though? What federal law did she break? Can she be prosecuted by her home state? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/92 "2019-10-09T18:46:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I am against jail terms for accidents, even if caused by negligence. Even here in the uSA. I only want criminals, people who had criminal intent in jail. You need to look up the term ‘reasonably forseeable’ when you consider negligence, negligence can be plenty criminal especially when evaluating the balance between cost, and sacrifice vs the need to ensure the safety of people. There are many cases of negligence that result in death and prison, and thats why courts will determine when this should be the case How do you know this was an accident? Do you know if she had any substances in her? Do you know if she was speeding? Do you know if she had a driving licence and insurance? Do you know if she was fit to drive without glasses? Do you know if she has been given other police warnings for poor driving or speeding? Do you know if she was using her mobile phone? In other words, it is not for your personal opinion to judge if an incident is actually an accident, do you believe that we in the UK are somehow not capable of determining this for ourselves and acting accordingly? We do not pass and enact specific legislation in order to please you, neither does the USA do the same for us, however its reasonable to imagine that we have enough principle in common to have largely similar expectations of our respective legal systems, your criticism of the UK criminal justice system is at the very least uninformed and patronising, its as if you believe we are some third world podunk nation that is unable to meet your exacting requirements ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/93 "2019-10-09T18:57:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am against jail terms for accidents, even if caused by negligence. Even here in the uSA. I only want criminals, people who had criminal intent in jail. Driving for miles on the wrong side of the road is more than simple negligence. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/94 "2019-10-09T19:46:33Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Driving for miles on the wrong side of the road is more than simple negligence. Was there some nefarious purpose behind driving on the wrong side of the road? I doubt she was intending to hurt someone or was deliberately driving on the wrong side for thrills. I’m ok with people being imprisoned for egregious negligence such as this, but I’d still use the word to describe the crash, rather than force fit the circumstance to a different word. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/95 "2019-10-09T19:57:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Driving for miles on the wrong side of the road is more than simple negligence. I may have missed something – was this woman driving on the wrong side of the road for miles? The only thing I saw with specifics of the accident was that it was 400 yards from the base, and the innocent young man just came around a bend when he was struck. I just assumed from that description that the woman had exited the base and driven for a short distance (and of course I have no idea why she would be driving on the wrong side of the road, whether it was her first time on a British road, if she was overtaking someone, if she was intoxicated, or whatever – I 'm not inclined to guess why). ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/96 "2019-10-09T20:15:48Z")
In Washington, DC, when something happens to a car while it’s under the care of a valet parking service, the valet employees are instructed to say that the damage was done by a car with diplomat tags. The police come, they write down the damage, and as soon as they hear “Diplomat Tags” they tear off the sheet and good luck even getting a report for your insurance company. This happened to me in the late 90’s. Nobody bothers to write a ticket or tow a car with diplomat tags. Whatever our frustration with the process, it is steeped in necessity and is by no means a mere job benefit. The vast majority of the diplomats and their families take their behavior here very seriously, and treat everyone with the utmost respect. While no one can give them their son back, I’m certain that the US will reimburse them for whatever damages can be justified under UK law. And I’m certain they will receive the profoundest apologies that this diplomat and his wife can present. But the US President’s current “Investigate 'em!!” approach to political maneuvering should be all that is needed to defend the necessity of diplomatic immunity. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/97 "2019-10-09T20:18:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Driving for miles on the wrong side of the road is more than simple negligence. “Reports say she was driving for some distance on the wrong side of the road.” I don’t know if “some distance” constitutes feet, miles, or furlongs. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/98 "2019-10-09T22:41:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Driving for miles on the wrong side of the road is more than simple negligence. Well, everyone in Britain does it all the time! 😛 Did she mean or want to hurt or kill anyone? Did she have any criminal intent? If the answer is no, then no jail. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/99 "2019-10-10T00:06:19Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I may have missed something – was this woman driving on the wrong side of the road for miles? The only thing I saw with specifics of the accident was that it was 400 yards from the base, and the innocent young man just came around a bend when he was struck. I just assumed from that description that the woman had exited the base and driven for a short distance (and of course I have no idea why she would be driving on the wrong side of the road, whether it was her first time on a British road, if she was overtaking someone, if she was intoxicated, or whatever – I 'm not inclined to guess why). Please god someone tell me they drive on the left in the base even though it’s American. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/100 "2019-10-10T11:50:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am against jail terms for accidents, even if caused by negligence. Even here in the uSA. I only want criminals, people who had criminal intent in jail. > > She will likely lose her job. And the USA should write a check. You don’t think dangerous driving is criminal? This wasn’t a momentary lapse of concentration [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=6)