# US diplomat's wife kills UK teenager, claims diplomatic immunity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400 "2019-10-07T07:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/101 "2019-10-10T12:01:31Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Please god someone tell me they drive on the left in the base even though it’s American. It’s a British base, just with Americans there. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/102 "2019-10-10T12:08:14Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > You don’t think dangerous driving is criminal? This wasn’t a momentary lapse of concentration She hasn’t actually been charged with anything yet. Why are you so sure about whether it was a momentary lapse or not? Do you have details of the accident not in the BBC articles? Thanks, Ravenman. ---
**Author:** ![squidfood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@squidfood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squidfood)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/103 "2019-10-10T14:01:29Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > You don’t think dangerous driving is criminal? This wasn’t a momentary lapse of concentration I’ve got a pretty safe (U.S.) driving record and I visit the UK all the time, but I stopped driving there because I found myself easily driving 100+ ft down the wrong side of the road even after years of off-and-on practice. It usually happens on turns, I just instinctively turn into the wrong lane (that’s the “momentary lapse”) but everything seems “ok and natural” as I drive along until I see something (like other cars) and think “oh shit”. I’m lucky nothing worse happened. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/104 "2019-10-10T14:07:53Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > I’m ok with people being imprisoned for egregious negligence such as this, but I’d still use the word to describe the crash, rather than force fit the circumstance to a different word. “Simple negligence” is a term of art, meaning garden-variety negligence as opposed to gross negligence. So when I say “this was more than simple negligence” I’m not force fitting the circumstances to the word; I’m referring to a different standard. > [@Ravenman](#): > > I may have missed something – was this woman driving on the wrong side of the road for miles? > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “Reports say she was driving for some distance on the wrong side of the road.” I don’t know if “some distance” constitutes feet, miles, or furlongs. Fair enough. I may have made an unwarranted assumption about how far she went on the wrong side. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Did she mean or want to hurt or kill anyone? Did she have any criminal intent? > > If the answer is no, then no jail. So if [Looten Plunder, Doctor Blight and Duke Nukem](https://captainplanet.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Villains) dispose of toxic waste by pouring it into a river, and they don’t intend to kill anyone, should they escape jail time? If I go to a nightclub with a loaded firearm in my [sweatpants holster](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ex-receiver-plaxico-burress-finally-explains-how-he-shot-himself-in-the-leg-at-a-club/) and it goes off, should I escape jail time? If a diplomat’s wife gets drunk and runs over an old lady, should she escape jail time? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/105 "2019-10-10T14:18:52Z")
Press got a look at a “secret” paper with talking points for Trump on why he won’t waive immunity. What an asshole. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3927941002](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3927941002) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/106 "2019-10-10T14:21:50Z")
On the bright side, this is helping to show the British public what horseshit Boris Johnson’s claims about how Brexit will mean closer ties between the US and UK are. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/107 "2019-10-10T16:50:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > On the bright side, this is helping to show the British public what horseshit Boris Johnson’s claims about how Brexit will mean closer ties between the US and UK are. You’d have to be really not very bright to think closer ties meant disregarding diplomatic immunity. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/108 "2019-10-10T16:57:41Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Was there some nefarious purpose behind driving on the wrong side of the road? I doubt she was intending to hurt someone or was deliberately driving on the wrong side for thrills. Surely the point is that no-one can come to any conclusion about any of these questions if she’s not actually here to give her explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/109 "2019-10-10T17:03:40Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’d have to be really not very bright to think closer ties meant disregarding diplomatic immunity. Ooooh, witty. And yet totally uninformed. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/110 "2019-10-10T17:14:02Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Could they though? What federal law did she break? Can she be prosecuted by her home state? If Russia can do it, surely the US can We had an episode several years ago in Ottawa where a Russian diplomat was drunk driving. His car mounted the curb and killed a woman and injured her companion, who were just out for a walk. Russia asserted diplomatic immunity, so the Canadian courts had no jurisdiction. Canada revoked his diplomatic status and he got shipped home to Russia. As soon as he got home, the Russian government fired him and then charged him with involuntary manslaughter under Russian law. The Russian authorities cooperated with the Canadian police to have the evidence gathered in Canada used at the trial in the Russian courts. And he was convicted, got sentenced, and was last heard of at a labour camp near Murmansk. So it can be done. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/former-russian-diplomat-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-1.313443](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/former-russian-diplomat-guilty-of-involuntary-manslaughter-1.313443) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/111 "2019-10-10T18:13:26Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > …You may think a prisoner exchange to help out Johnson and Trump’s approval ratings is a good idea but I don’t. No, I don’t either. It was (mostly) a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/112 "2019-10-10T18:23:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > If Russia can do it, surely the US can I wouldn’t be quite so sure. Russian criminal law is not federalized; the country has a single criminal code. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/113 "2019-10-10T18:49:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’d have to be really not very bright to think closer ties meant disregarding diplomatic immunity. Well, Johnson and Trump… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/114 "2019-10-10T19:00:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I wouldn’t be quite so sure. Russian criminal law is not federalized; the country has a single criminal code. True, but the US has a code of military justice that covers individuals in the US military, even though criminal law is mainly state jurisdiction. Why not a federal law giving the federal courts jurisdiction to try cases of US diplomats for crimes alleged to be committed abroad, using a US equivalent to the alleged foreign offence? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/115 "2019-10-10T19:03:54Z")
But which US equivalent? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/116 "2019-10-10T19:20:20Z")
How does it work when a US military person is charged with committing an offence in a foreign country and tried under US law under a visiting forces agreement? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/117 "2019-10-10T19:27:37Z")
The UCMJ _is_ a criminal code, so they are prosecuted under that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/118 "2019-10-10T19:34:23Z")
Then why not have a similar code for diplomats? Or just try them in Federal Court under the relevant offence under the USMCJ? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/119 "2019-10-10T19:44:24Z")
There’s no reason we couldn’t. I’m just saying I don’t think we _have_ such a code, and the UCMJ applies to uniformed military personnel only. We could create one, but it would cause some serious ex post facto problems in this case. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/120 "2019-10-10T20:01:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The UCMJ _is_ a criminal code, so they are prosecuted under that. A guy I knew was caught doing drugs by the US Army in Turkey. He was tried and imprisoned by the Turks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=7)