# US diplomat's wife kills UK teenager, claims diplomatic immunity **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2019, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400 "2019-10-07T07:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/161 "2019-10-14T16:53:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > How else did she get on the wrong side of the road? If she was in control of the car, it was where she intended. Assuming this is the case of someone coming from driving on the right side of the road accidentally going to the right in England, she never intended to go on the wrong side of the road. She thought she was correct. There was never intent to be wrong or put someone else in danger. Her state of mind was never to cause harm or do the wrong thing. She was mistaken. It’s not the same as saying intentionally performed an illegal act. She intentionally performed an act that she thought was legal, but she was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/162 "2019-10-14T16:55:51Z")
Exactly. She intentionally drove on the right side of the road instead of the left side of the road, but she didn’t intentionally drive on the wrong side of the road. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/163 "2019-10-14T17:47:28Z")
Driving on the wrong side of the road is illegal. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The claim that she had forgotten which side of the road to drive on does not excuse the crime of driving on the wrong side. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/164 "2019-10-14T18:30:55Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Driving on the wrong side of the road is illegal. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The claim that she had forgotten which side of the road to drive on does not excuse the crime of driving on the wrong side. Well sure, but there are levels here. Intentionally driving on the side of the road which you know to be the wrong side is reckless, and would be fully deserving of criminal reckless driving charges. Intentionally driving on the right side of the road when the correct side is the left due to an unintentional mental lapse is fully deserving of being ticketed for a serious traffic violation, but it is arguably the case that it doesn’t reach to the level of criminal reckless driving, or, if it does, only to the level of a less serious criminal offense that would typically be penalized with a fine and possibly probation and mandatory driving courses rather than incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/165 "2019-10-14T19:37:49Z")
She intentionally performed an act that was not only illegal, but was clearly likely to cause harm. If you’re going to drive, you are expected to know the rules of the road. I can’t see how someone can end up on the wrong side of the road by either recklessly not paying attention, or recklessly driving despite not being fit to, whether through ignorance of the rules or by impairment. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/166 "2019-10-14T19:57:55Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > She intentionally performed an act that was not only illegal, but was clearly likely to cause harm. If you’re going to drive, you are expected to know the rules of the road. I can’t see how someone can end up on the wrong side of the road by either recklessly not paying attention, or recklessly driving despite not being fit to, whether through ignorance of the rules or by impairment. The only possible conclusion is that she wanted to run over someone on a motor bike. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/167 "2019-10-14T21:03:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > She intentionally performed an act that was not only illegal, but was clearly likely to cause harm. . \*intentionally \*is not only not proven but not even alleged by the police. So, are you just making stuff up now? ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/168 "2019-10-14T21:19:37Z")
It’s easily done when you make a turn. I’ve done it myself when abroad. If there’s no other obvious traffic to remind you what you should be doing it’s easy to revert to ingrained habits as to which side of the road to keep to. Traffic around that region is pretty sparse, I was up there in June. Didn’t go by the base, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/169 "2019-10-16T12:19:10Z")
Oh good, Donald Trump is now personally involved. As usual, he is being very tactful about this, by attempting to stage a [reality show](https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-grieving-parents-ambushed-by-trump-who-was-hiding-spy-wife-at-the-white-house) about it in the White House: > [@](#): > > The Dunn family, now in the United States to drum up support to send Sacoolas back to the U.K. to face justice, had accepted an “urgent” invitation by the White House from National Security Adviser Robert O’Brien, to visit Donald Trump in Washington, D.C. Trump, it seems, thought he could convince the Dunns to meet the woman who killed their son, and would do so by opening a side door through which she would walk. The whole scene would be captured by a pool of photographers who had been summoned for the meeting. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/170 "2019-10-16T12:58:07Z")
Weirdly, I am beginning to feel some sympathy for this woman. She made a stupid mistake with horrible consequences and now she is being manipulated by politicians for their own advantage. Of course, I feel sorry for the Dunns, but I thought at the time that they were making a mistake going to the US. It seems that I was correct. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/171 "2019-10-16T13:49:09Z")
Of course it was incorrect for them to go to the States. I can understand the emotions involved but I can’t imagine what they expect to get out of it. I read a quote from them saying an apology is not enough…ok but what else do they possibly expect? What is even their itinerary while in the States? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/172 "2019-10-16T14:05:23Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Oh good, Donald Trump is now personally involved. As usual, he is being very tactful about this, by attempting to stage a [reality show](https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-grieving-parents-ambushed-by-trump-who-was-hiding-spy-wife-at-the-white-house) about it in the White House: Oh my god, that is so callous and disgusting. I can’t imagine a worse idea than to manipulate people like it’s the Jerry Springer show, only filmed in the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/173 "2019-10-16T14:16:40Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > Weirdly, I am beginning to feel some sympathy for this woman. She made a stupid mistake with horrible consequences and now she is being manipulated by politicians for their own advantage. What horrible consequences? So far, she seems to have escaped facing any consequence. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/174 "2019-10-16T14:22:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What horrible consequences? A young man died. And it must have been traumatic for her too. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/175 "2019-10-16T14:25:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oh my god, that is so callous and disgusting. I can’t imagine a worse idea than to manipulate people like it’s the Jerry Springer show, only filmed in the Oval Office. I think Trump fits more naturally into the role of a _guest_ on Jerry Springer. “I don’t care, I do what I want!”, as he take off his high heels and starts ineffectually beating Nancy Pelosi around the head with them, while a musclebound Secret Service agent in a black tee-shirt tries to keep them apart without fully restraining them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/176 "2019-10-16T16:47:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What horrible consequences? So far, she seems to have escaped facing any consequence. So, being vilified in the press isn’t a “consequence”? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/177 "2019-10-16T18:03:01Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > \*intentionally \*is not only not proven but not even alleged by the police. > > So, are you just making stuff up now? Do not accuse other posters of lying. This is…close. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![robardin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@robardin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robardin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/178 "2019-10-16T18:20:51Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Oh good, Donald Trump is now personally involved. As usual, he is being very tactful about this, by attempting to stage a [reality show](https://www.thedailybeast.com/anne-sacoolas-grieving-parents-ambushed-by-trump-who-was-hiding-spy-wife-at-the-white-house) about it in the White House: I was so very sure this was a headline from the Onion when I read this earlier today. I should have learned by now that when it comes to things Donald Trump says or does, he is way ahead of the Onion. I suppose he imagined he could go full Judge Judy and make a ruling, in his great and unmatched wisdom to which surely even Solomon would sit down and applaud, and both sides would blush with admiration at the extreme fairness and cleverness of his judgment, and everybody would go home with a gift basket and wearing MAGA hats. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/179 "2019-10-16T18:54:51Z")
But not without hamberders following the photo op! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400/180 "2019-10-16T19:04:07Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if he also had DNA tests done, with the hope of springing questionable paternity issues on the couple while he was at it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-diplomats-wife-kills-uk-teenager-claims-diplomatic-immunity/841400.md?page=10)