# US dopers, how do you define wealthy? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 2, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669 "2009-12-02T04:31:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/61 "2009-12-03T15:45:51Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I suppose it all depends on basis of comparison; sure I can afford some luxuries, but in my mind these are relatively modest. “Wealthy” I associate with fancy cars, vacation properties, etc. > > OTOH, I can well remember when I was a sculptor’s assistant (my first adult job), when buying a book was a luxury I couldn’t afford. Yeah, compared to Sandy’s cousin, you should start dumpster diving… We have a similar household income. Our modest house is paid off - and by modest, my neighbors are systems analysts, insurance salesmen, teachers and airline mechanics. We save a lot towards our kids college knowing that we don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of qualifying for financial aid. There are two cars - my husbands is nicer, I drive an 8 year old Jetta. We do take nice vacations once a year, can afford dinner out on a whim. We do not have multiple homes, multiple cars, any toys in the boat/snowmobile/RV sort of vein, granite countertops and tile bathrooms. I did have a housekeeper when the kids were really little, but have been doing my own housekeeping and lawn care for years. I’m a frugal grocery shopper who keeps my grocery bills pretty low. We fly coach - but we do fly when we would have to drive more than eight hours. Our kids go to public schools. I’ve never spent more than $70 on a pair of shoes or a purse (and usually WAY less) and color my hair out of a box at home. And frankly, I don’t know where the money would come from to have a second home or send the kids to private schools. (I have thought about a third car - we have two sedans and something to haul a lot of stuff and kids - like a POS minivan - would come in handy from time to time - but the insurance and upkeep is something I don’t want). We don’t have cable TV - I won’t pay $70 a month for junk right now. We do save quite a bit in addition to the kids college funds. I suppose people with our income who have a second home don’t do that. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/62 "2009-12-03T16:08:33Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Yeah, compared to Sandy’s cousin, you should start dumpster diving… > > We have a similar household income. Our modest house is paid off - and by modest, my neighbors are systems analysts, insurance salesmen, teachers and airline mechanics. We save a lot towards our kids college knowing that we don’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of qualifying for financial aid. There are two cars - my husbands is nicer, I drive an 8 year old Jetta. We do take nice vacations once a year, can afford dinner out on a whim. We do not have multiple homes, multiple cars, any toys in the boat/snowmobile/RV sort of vein, granite countertops and tile bathrooms. I did have a housekeeper when the kids were really little, but have been doing my own housekeeping and lawn care for years. I’m a frugal grocery shopper who keeps my grocery bills pretty low. We fly coach - but we do fly when we would have to drive more than eight hours. Our kids go to public schools. I’ve never spent more than $70 on a pair of shoes or a purse (and usually WAY less) and color my hair out of a box at home. And frankly, I don’t know where the money would come from to have a second home or send the kids to private schools. (I have thought about a third car - we have two sedans and something to haul a lot of stuff and kids - like a POS minivan - would come in handy from time to time - but the insurance and upkeep is something I don’t want). We don’t have cable TV - I won’t pay $70 a month for junk right now. > > We do save quite a bit in addition to the kids college funds. I suppose people with our income who have a second home don’t do that. Yup. When I see someone in our circumstances (that is, have kids, live in a house, earn in the $250k range) with a lot of fancy stuff like second houses and luxury vehicles, I _strongly suspect_ one or more of the following things _must_ be true: 1. They have a source of money other than their income. a surprising number of folks I know get cash from their parents, even when still alive and even though they make a good middle class salary … also many get substantial inheritances (I’m at an age where parents are starting to die off). 2. They are not saving money for retirement and education for the kids (and are possibly racking up debts). 3. They live where the cost of living is low. In Toronto, a modest 3 bedroom house in a good location costs $800,000 or more. In some places, that would buy a palatial mansion. $250k/year is not enough to own a house in an expensive city, raise a kid, live with lots of substantial flashy luxuries _and_ save any money. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/63 "2009-12-03T16:20:36Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > 1. They have a source of money other than their income. a surprising number of folks I know get cash from their parents, even when still alive and even though they make a good middle class salary … also many get substantial inheritances (I’m at an age where parents are starting to die off). Another one is stock options. My husband works for a company where people who joined ten years before he did are middle class millionaires off their options alone. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/64 "2009-12-03T16:26:23Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Another one is stock options. My husband works for a company where people who joined ten years before he did are middle class millionaires off their options alone. That’s quite true - I have clients that have done very well that way. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/65 "2009-12-03T16:44:36Z")
The “old money” definition: Wealthy is when you can live off the interest on the interest. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/66 "2009-12-03T23:39:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I never understood the point of living _well_ below your means, simply to be rich. My in-laws did that their whole lives, to the point of obsession. They owned investment properties and ended up with a nice pile, but their kids remember their childhoods as miserably deprived of anything fun. (Added bonus: the money the parents scrimped their whole life to save was partly blown by one daughter’s scamming drug addict husband on hookers and blow for himself. Sad story that.) I think the goal is to live comfortibly within your means with a bit of a cushion for contingencies. You’re right, a huge pile of money that you never touch your entire life is useless. I recall an amusing quote I read about New Yorkers a few years ago that said something like “we all pay $2000 a month in rent, wear $500 shoes, eat $150 steak dinners and all cry about being poor”. To a certain extent that is true. You feel poor because everything you do is so expensive, but OTOH, if you can afford to live in NYC and have a decent lifestyle, you are probably are not doing too bad for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/67 "2009-12-03T23:58:50Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think the goal is to live comfortibly within your means with a bit of a cushion for contingencies. You’re right, a huge pile of money that you never touch your entire life is useless. > I recall an amusing quote I read about New Yorkers a few years ago that said something like “we all pay $2000 a month in rent, wear $500 shoes, eat $150 steak dinners and all cry about being poor”. To a certain extent that is true. You feel poor because everything you do is so expensive, but OTOH, if you can afford to live in NYC and have a decent lifestyle, you are probably are not doing too bad for yourself. Just FYI, one of the things that makes me feel. . .solvent. . .financially OK. . .is that I have some “mad money” cash on hand. As a rule, when I shop, I don’t spend coins or one-dollar bills. When I get home, my loose change, loose ones, whatever (occasionally a loose five-buck or so) goes into _my_ coffee can. Come what may, _I_ have that money. At any given time, I have a couple of hundred dollars standing by. That’s not a lot of money. But it’s enough to make me feel _not broke_, come what may. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/68 "2009-12-04T14:39:18Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > Just FYI, one of the things that makes me feel. . .solvent. . .financially OK. . .is that I have some “mad money” cash on hand. As a rule, when I shop, I don’t spend coins or one-dollar bills. When I get home, my loose change, loose ones, whatever (occasionally a loose five-buck or so) goes into _my_ coffee can. > > Come what may, _I_ have that money. At any given time, I have a couple of hundred dollars standing by. > > That’s not a lot of money. But it’s enough to make me feel _not broke_, come what may. I do the same thing! Always have. Another thing I’ve done, more recently, is to make a book safe (that is, hollow out a hole inside a book I’m never going to read again) and put $1,000 in cash in there - just in case. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/69 "2009-12-04T15:27:19Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I do the same thing! Always have. > > Another thing I’ve done, more recently, is to make a book safe (that is, hollow out a hole inside a book I’m never going to read again) and put $1,000 in cash in there - just in case. I like that! Mind if I ‘steal’ (heh) it? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/70 "2009-12-04T16:22:44Z")
Personally I think of having 3 mil in interest earning assets as rich and 60 mil as wealthy. I figure if you can earn 100K after taxes without working you’re rich. I don’t count assets that aren’t earning interest because they really don’t do you any good in terms of your day to day life. Sure I’ve got 50K in equity in my house but that only helps me if I sell my house and don’t buy a new one. I think those assets really only count into a family’s wealth since its only the next generation that is going to be able to sell the house and cash out the full amount. ---
**Author:** ![rhubarbarin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eb9ed0/32.png) [@rhubarbarin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rhubarbarin)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/71 "2009-12-04T16:47:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > \*\*Malthus \*\* would be an example of “rich” but not “wealthy” (just based on what he wrote). Most of his money is going to sustaining his familie’s lifestyle. If he lost his job tomorrow, he would burn through his savings at a rate of about $10,000 a month. His primary asset is a house I estimate around $500,000 to$700,000, but without his income, that too would be in danger. > > Not knowing anything else about **Malthus** , it would not be hard to imagine him as someone constantly stressed out about work and keeping up appearances. That is not wealthy. Malthus would be in the top 2% of income earning for the entire US (he is in Canada, though - no idea what’s normal for that country)! If we don’t consider that ‘wealthy’, our perceptions are very messed up. Whatever the proportion of spending to income is, if you make much more money than the average citizen (at last census the real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round were $45,113. For women, $35,102) and can afford spending many thousands a year on non-essentials, that’s ‘rich’ to me. Most people, no matter how much they make, up into the millions, don’t have a lot of extra money on hand. Most of them have to worry about keeping their job to keep up with monthly financial obligations, and wouldn’t keep afloat for long if they were out of work. That doesn’t mean they aren’t wealthy or even filthy rich. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/72 "2009-12-04T18:08:51Z")
I usually follow forbes, who upped their millionaire’s list to billionaires only. But, as a personal definition, I would say “wealth” is when you have so much money that it never goes down (what you spend is less than what the money earns on dividends and interest.) Another way to put it is that wealth is impossible to spend, and last I checked, if you wanted to spend 100k a year after taxes, you need about 200 million earning 1% interest. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/73 "2009-12-04T20:25:49Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Malthus would be in the top 2% of income earning for the entire US (he is in Canada, though - no idea what’s normal for that country)! If we don’t consider that ‘wealthy’, our perceptions are very messed up. > > Whatever the proportion of spending to income is, if you make much more money than the average citizen (at last census the real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round were $45,113. For women, $35,102) and can afford spending many thousands a year on non-essentials, that’s ‘rich’ to me. > > Most people, no matter how much they make, up into the millions, don’t have a lot of extra money on hand. Most of them have to worry about keeping their job to keep up with monthly financial obligations, and wouldn’t keep afloat for long if they were out of work. That doesn’t mean they aren’t wealthy or even filthy rich. That’s true for a country as a whole, but not true for certain locations within a country. Where I live, what I make isn’t remarkable. It’s a reasonably typical upper middle class professional income - on the upper end of what one can make as a “salary”, but nonetheless a salary. For real wealth, look to folks who mostly earn from various sorts of investments. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669/74 "2009-12-05T04:22:41Z")
> [@rhubarbarin](#): > > Malthus would be in the top 2% of income earning for the entire US (he is in Canada, though - no idea what’s normal for that country)! If we don’t consider that ‘wealthy’, our perceptions are very messed up. I make a bit less than Malthus, but we would be in the “upper middle class”, not the “wealthy” classes. Sure I earn a comfortable income. I can drop $200 on a steak dinner with my girlfriend and not give it a second thought. But 90% of my income is tied to my very stressful and demanding job. People who are “wealthy” IMHO do not have to subject themselves to the rat race of working 100 hours a week trying to make partner. That is the paradox of wealth. Unless you are born with it or stumble into it at an early age, you spend your entire life chasing after it so you can become wealthy just in time for your kids to grow up as spoiled jerks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-how-do-you-define-wealthy/519669.md?page=3)