# US Dopers Only: Your Opinions About Professional Soccer **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 12, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561 "2009-10-12T18:34:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jkirkman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@jkirkman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkirkman)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/41 "2009-10-13T18:23:28Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > If you define running back and forth in mid field as non stop action, good for you. i do not. Actually, yes, pretty much. Most of the action in Soccer is off the ball. This makes watching it on TV problematic. It is kinda like if you tried to watch American Football on TV with no replay and the camera just followed the ball. The running plays would be sort of watchable, but the passing plays would be useless. A _LOT_ of Soccer is like a football passing play, which only makes sense if you can see all the recievers and their routes and how they use them to influence the DB’s and create space the QB can throw into. Hockey has a lot of the same issues. When you are in the stadium, you can see most of the field and most of the players at once. You can see the off-ball movement and the teams’ shape, and how it adjusts over the course of the game. Watching a game live with a friend is more like MST3k’ing a movie with a good buddy than watching a performance sport like basketball or tennis or golf. You are part of the match. You’re not watching what the players do then discussing it, you are watching the ball and the off-ball movement and predicting what the player with the ball is going to do and what they should do and then seeing how their decision compares to yours and how it turns out, then spending the next 3 minutes arguing about it with your friend. If you like soccer, that is. If you don’t, well, that’s fine too. I will also stipulate that badly-played soccer is really, REALLY ugly to try to watch. I would lump most MLS matches and most USMNT games into the “bad” category. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/42 "2009-10-13T23:11:39Z")
If you think soccer is boring, fine. But to state such a thing as if it is an objective fact makes you sound like an idiot when you consider that several billion people disagree strongly with you. I actually think the comparison to baseball is apt. If you don’t really know the game or haven’t grown up immersed in the culture of fandom, it really seems like nothing much happens most of the time. On the other hand, if you are a fan or are immersed in the culture of the game, you understand those moments of seeming inaction are actually packed with strategy and are pregnant with possibility. The status of soccer in America is weird. No one who has played soccer or goes to their kids games thinks it is boring. But once the subject of professional soccer comes up, people act like its this weird foreign thing where everyone has funny names. (Never mind that there is a guy in baseball named Asdrubel Cabrera.) I think that its just that the US hasn’t had professional soccer for very long so that there has never really been a fan culture until extremely recently. I do think that as MLS gets older and people become used to there being such a thing as pro soccer, this attitude will change. But it is bizarre to watch the extreme reaction that some people have to the idea. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/43 "2009-10-13T23:22:17Z")
The “seeing it live” argument is a good one. I can’t watch ice hockey on TV, but the handful of times I’ve been to NHL and minor league games, I really enjoyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/44 "2009-10-14T00:43:02Z")
Sorry to burst your bubble but I have been going to my kids soccer games since 1998 and I think it’s boring in most cases. Just not enough scoring or action for me. I don’t like baseball either. One thing I have noticed is that some kids will play soccer when they are 5-9 years old but after that they switch to more traditional US sports such as baseball, FB, etc. My 2 sons who are 13 and 17 played soccer for a long time but they have almost zero interest in watching it on TV. They might watch the US team play but that’s about it. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/45 "2009-10-14T01:00:09Z")
I’ve been playing soccer for over 20 years, and I think watching it is pretty boring. I watch the “big” national team games, including the world cup, but soccer is a distant fourth as a spectator sport for me. The fake writhing after “fouls” is the worst part. I can’t stand that aspect of international soccer. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/46 "2009-10-14T02:32:37Z")
There should have been a category that said: “I’ve watched 23 minutes of soccer in my whole life, but i’m convinced that it’s objectively the most boring sport in history. I will also, completely without irony, attempt to rebut any criticism of American football or baseball with the argument that you have to grow up with it and be part of the culture to understand it.” I’ve run into lots of Americans, including a few Dopers, who fit that general description. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/47 "2009-10-14T02:39:41Z")
I love it. However, I don’t love it enough to watch two seconds of a MLS game. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/48 "2009-10-14T03:04:21Z")
The World Cup can be kind of fun and I’ll watch it if I’m with fans, or if there’s nothing else on. I’m not interested by the game itself, but when whole nations get into it, there’s a nice sense of drama. I also voted for the “shoved down our throats” option because the whole Beckham thing was incredibly irritating: the only people not smart enough to know that the U.S. sports fans don’t care about professional soccer are _people who write about professional soccer_. A second, minor problem with soccer is the soccer snobs. Americans are not being arrogant by ignoring soccer, goddamit. It’s just one sport among many, not intrinsically better than any other, and not a mark of culturedness. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/49 "2009-10-14T05:18:16Z")
I don’t find soccer boring at all. However, I find it helps if you have a favorite team to support. I occasionally enjoy watching games as a neutral spectator, but those games tend to be high-profile matches in tournaments like the World Cup or the Champions League, where the teams will be of an unusually high caliber (at least in the knock-out stages of those tournaments, that is). My favorite games to watch are league matches (especially the English Premier League and Serie A) featuring the teams I support (Arsenal and Fiorentina, respectively) or games featuring the main rivals of those teams, in which case I root for the opposition no matter who they are… though things do get complicated when both teams are rivals to my preferred teams and it’s hard to figure out which side to hate the most (the 2008 Champions League final between Chelsea and Man United provided one of the few occasions where I enjoyed watching a penalty shoot-out, as watching Cristiano Ronaldo and John Terry miss their penalties was comedy gold). I guess what I’m getting at is that a lot of the appeal behind soccer goes beyond the game on the pitch–it includes the culture that surrounds the sport, with each club having a distinct personality and reputation. Admittedly some “fans” go a bit too far with the culture and forget about the sport, and you sometimes end up with hooligan problems (despite the widespread perception in America that all European soccer games involve hooliganism, it’s not nearly as much an issue nowadays, particularly not in England). But the best thing about soccer is when you have a balance between a truly beautiful game on the field, and the cultural (even tribal) identification that fans feel for particular teams. One of the main problems with the MLS, I feel, is that it is distinctly inferior to the big European leagues both in terms of quality of play and in cultural atmosphere. The most talented soccer players in the world usually prefer to play in England, Spain, Italy, or Germany, mainly because of the higher quality of their leagues (not to mention high wages), so the MLS is left with young unproven players or over-the-hill stars of yesteryear. And while I understand that some of the clubs have established rivalries with one another, they don’t yet have the history that informs so many of the European clubs. Maybe this will change as the league gets older and starts expanding to more cities (currently only 15), but since American culture is pretty strongly resistant to soccer, I don’t think this will happen any time soon. Oh, and for what it’s worth, I also enjoy baseball. ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/50 "2009-10-14T15:56:08Z")
I answered: “I get excited around World Cup time and pay some attention to MLS.” But my real answer is: “I get excited around World Cup time and pay some attention to WPS [Women’s Professional Soccer].” Go Breakers! ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/51 "2009-10-14T22:45:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > A second, minor problem with soccer is the soccer snobs. Americans are not being arrogant by ignoring soccer, goddamit. It’s just one sport among many, not intrinsically better than any other, and not a mark of culturedness. I had to chuckle at this statement. I’ve yet to see anyone who is a soccer advocate assert that soccer is somehow the best or only worthwhile sport to watch. Rather, what consistently happens is that Americans assert that soccer is somehow beneath contempt, unworthy of even a moment’s notice. This, of course, intentional or not, expresses an opinion about the denizens of the rest of the world, who are devoted to soccer, and who reject American football utterly. Yes, Americans ARE being arrogant about soccer, because while there is no good reason to elevate it above the sports already lionized here, there is no good reason to vilify it as if it were unworthy of any notice at all. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/52 "2009-10-14T23:00:13Z")
There are a lot of tears in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/53 "2009-10-14T23:58:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > My 12-year-old’s far more interested in soccer than me. We saw a U.S.-Venezuela exhibition game a few years back, and I have to say that the drama-queen antics of the players whenever they got “injured” were just laughable. That said, they sure could move the ball around the field, and some of the scores on headers were very impressive. It’s no different than Tom Brady drawing roughing-the-passer calls. The only difference is that the rules are more equally enforced in soccer, not just for the glory boys. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/54 "2009-10-15T04:37:52Z")
Another problem I see with soccer is the fact that play tends to mostly happen in neutral territory where scoring is unlikely to impossible. ANY PLAY on a football field could mean 6 points. In basketball and hockey most action happens down around each goal. In soccer, however, the field tends to be so big, the majority of the action takes place at mid-field where scoring can’t take place. I’ve become a semi-soccer fan due to the Seattle Sounders being popular but even I have to admit I end up hitting the “skip forward” button on my DVR quite a bit during a recorded game. In fact I’ve even checked the score before hand if I’ve seen all the goals or we lost 0-1 or something, I just delete it. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/55 "2009-10-15T08:27:55Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > 1. Soccer doesn’t lend itself well to television viewing. Football has tons of built in commercial breaks between possessions and quarters. Baseball can do commercial breaks between half-innings. Basketball has quarters, lots of timeouts, fouls and clock stoppage at scores that it’s no problem weaving in commercials. Soccer just keeps going, so getting commercials in either means having random timeouts thrown in or missing action. Most Americans get their sports on TV, so that is going to make it a lot harder. This paragraph sounds like you actually _like_ having your sitcoms, movies, sports and newscasts interrupted every 10-15 minutes for ads. Maybe that’s an essential difference between American viewers and foreigners, who yell to high heaven if a half-an-hour program has a commercial break. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/56 "2009-10-15T13:37:31Z")
Americans have small bladders. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/57 "2009-10-15T14:18:02Z")
One reason I like HBO shows is no commercials. I often use the DVR just so I can skip commercials. ---
**Author:** ![bink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/439d5e/32.png) [@bink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bink)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/58 "2009-10-15T15:00:56Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > Another problem I see with soccer is the fact that play tends to mostly happen in neutral territory where scoring is unlikely to impossible. ANY PLAY on a football field could mean 6 points. I disagree with this. In soccer, any play can definitely lead to a goal and often does. So many goals come as counterattacks after defending a goal attempt by the other team. How often in American football do you get those 98-yard touchdowns, really? It’s usually two yards here and five yards there. I voted for the second option. Ten years ago I would have picked the first option but the Metrostars broke my heart when they signed Mamadou Diallo and I gradually lost interest. I don’t go to games much anymore. How bout that USMNT game last night, though? ---
**Author:** ![Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Ian\_D.Bergkamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ian_D.Bergkamp)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2009, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/59 "2009-10-15T20:17:48Z")
> [@bink](#): > > How bout that USMNT game last night, though? I was there in the stands. Awful first half, amazing second half. I hung out in the parking lot with a bunch of US fans after the match and still have the hangover to show for it. I don’t see how anyone could say that draw was boring. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561/60 "2009-10-18T00:39:22Z")
Disclaimer: I follow sports a little, but it’s been a long time since I’ve been passionate about any of them. I don’t even watch the Super Bowl anymore. My problem with soccer on the professional level is that it really _is_ kids’ game, i.e. one where you can be less than great and still hold your own and one blunder is almost never fatal. It’s a great way to get the young’uns outside, give them some exercise, teach them about cooperation and sportsmanship and following a gameplan, and show the rewards of doing something right. (I was in youth soccer for several years, and it was pretty much the only active competition in my life that I didn’t absolutely loathe every damn second of.) It’s exactly because these ideals that I can’t get passionate about it. I wouldn’t call it boring so much as _futile_. There are an astonishing number of things that result in zippo net gain for either side. Field position, as already been mentioned, is worthless the vast majority of the time. A foul results in a free kick that leads to nothing. A _yellow card_ foul, if it happens outside the penalty box, does nothing but make it a “direct” free kick, which means it can score outright, provided that it makes its way around 4-5 defenders and catches the goalkeeper in a coma. Even a corner kick hardly ever results in so much as another corner kick, much less a goal. This isn’t a sport where “nothing happens”, it’s a sport where lots of things happen _that don’t matter_. If I want lots of men running around for a few hours, I’d rather watch a marathon. At least I know who’s ahead. I find the World Cup fairly entertaining, especially since it’s almost always tight and you never know how a contest is going to turn out. I’m not fanatical about it, though, and I certainly won’t watch it at extremely odd hours. My favorite finals, BTW, were the two France were in: Unbeatable high drama and a stunning result both times. Flopping is an embarrassment, but at least the leagues have gotten tough on it (it’s even its own penalty now, “simulation”). And I understand the need for some kind of offside, I just think that letting the _defender_ determine where it begins is stupid. Why can’t there be a big, highly visible line, like in hockey? Behind it, onside, past it, offside. No muss, no fuss. I don’t see how not caring for soccer automatically makes you a rabid baseball fan. I find baseball the most unwatchable sport in existence. Because there are absolutely NO time restrictions for ANYTHING. The pitcher makes the pitch when he’s good and ready, the batter can step out of the box at any time for any reason and take as long as he pleases getting back in, time outs are free and unlimited at all times (I’ve seen multiple time outs on the same _at-bat_). Know how sumo, at least at the top level, has a 4-5 minute prematch ritual before every match? That’s two fairly brisk at-bats in baseball, less than that if there are foul balls and/or pickoff attempts (which can be done _infinitely_ without penalty). It _can_ get exciting…Joe Carter’s Game 6-winning home run was an awesome moment I saw live…but no way in hell could I ever watch even three innings in their entirety, much less a whole game. Now golf, it’s definitely slow paced, but the huge advantage it has over baseball is that there are lots of different competitors on the course at the same time. So the cameramen can go from player to player, always getting someone who’s doing something at the time; we don’t need to watch Sergio Garcia regripping for four minutes. Furthermore, because there are lots of camera angles, there’s no danger of not knowing where the ball went. Now, golf broadcasts are subject to certain…abuses (_cough_TigerTigerTiger_cough_), but on the whole, you’re getting helluva lot more action than in baseball. Of course, if you watch it live, that’s a different story (as it is for soccer), and I don’t recommend it at all unless you want to feel the course beneath your feet or are going to follow a certain player. Auto racing, well, you can take it or leave it (I used to follow NASCAR closely, but that was a while ago). The thing about it is that the exciting things are things the drivers are either trying to avoid (e.g. wrecks) or prevent (e.g. getting passed). And there are usually long stretches where not much of note happens. In general, though I find it more entertaining than soccer. Just so much speed, so much power, so close to the edge at all times. Not a whole lot of sports can compare. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-only-your-opinions-about-professional-soccer/513561.md?page=4)