# US Dopers - reaction to this supermarket sign? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 14, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675 "2011-08-14T12:38:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/61 "2011-08-15T04:17:27Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Wasn’t Negro a replacement for Colored which had become a term that wasn’t supposed to be used anymore? Maybe it was the other way around. The point still stands it’s a constantly evolving thing. I think it was the other way around. After all, doesn’t “nigger” come from “Negro” (which is really the Spanish word for black)? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/62 "2011-08-15T04:25:26Z")
> [@11811](#): > > Agreed that ‘Oriental’ is not the preferred term. It is for me, and I speak as someone who is both Asian and Oriental. A lot of Americans treat the two terms as though they are equivalent. They are not. Many Asians are not orientals – the aforementioned Indians and Pakistanis, for example. Yeah, yeah, I know. A lot of people say that one should use “Asian” when referring to people and “Oriental” when referring to objects. That rule only makes sense if the two terms are otherwise equivalent though, and they’re not. This rule came into existence because your typical American doesn’t know that Asia encompasses more than just the Far East. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/63 "2011-08-15T05:52:33Z")
I’d notice it and probably think it was unusual. Asian id definitely the preferred term nowadays. But I don’t consider “oriental” to be very offensive - it’s more archaic than derogatory. On a related note, I’ve seen supermarkets struggle to figure out a way to label “soul food”. They don’t want to put up anything that implies that black people have a separate section of the store. Music and book stores get around it with the “urban” label but that wouldn’t really work for food which has rural origins. I saw places that tried the label “comfort food” but that wasn’t specific enough. So the preferred term now seems to be “southern food”. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/64 "2011-08-15T10:34:34Z")
What if our American Doper cyber-acquaintances saw a TV commercial imploring them to not let their home [be a house with no Coon](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CR0x3iONBs)? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/65 "2011-08-15T10:57:28Z")
Clearly any offense given would be purely occidental. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/66 "2011-08-15T11:18:39Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > I tend not to notice supermarket signs. > But if I saw it in the UK, I’d think that things are different in different countries. If I saw it in the US my eyebrows would go straight up and make me wonder about the store. Wonder what? > [@hajario](#): > > This is correct, or at least it was correct. It does seem to be changing. I call it PC Creep. People think, “Hurr durr. Asian good. Oriental bad,” without understanding context. > > It’s like that newspaper reporter from the US who asked Nelson Mandela what it was like to be the first African American leader of South Africa. I agree with your PC Creep proposition but I suspect that the newspaper reporter in your anecdote didn’t mean anything at all by what they said and just had a momentary brain fart as a consequence of home experience where “black” and “african american” are basically synonyms. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think it was the other way around. After all, doesn’t “nigger” come from “Negro” (which is really the Spanish word for black)? Yes, and each becomes regarded as offensive in turn. Well meaning liberals decide the old words are offensive because they are used disparagingly by some people about a particular minority. So they invent a new word. If that word gains acceptance and becomes mainstream, it is used disparagingly by some people about the same particular minority and it is time to invent a new term. Rinse, lather, etc. It’s all so pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/67 "2011-08-15T11:57:26Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Obviously in the UK, the word “Oriental” is _pronounced_ “Asian”. Oh, no. _Asian_ means someone from the Indian subcontinent. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > I think it was the other way around. After all, doesn’t “nigger” come from “Negro” (which is really the Spanish word for black)? It’s actually a Scottish dialectal word. To confuse things even more. In Swedish and, I think, German _Oriental_ could refer to East Asia, but more often the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/68 "2011-08-15T13:29:43Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > That aisle was obviously between Baltic & Vermont… i laughed… as an asian and an american, i personally don’t find the term oriental offensive at all. it’s actually useful in describing China/Japan/Korea. Vietnam/Thailand/Vietnam/etc. are “South Asians” to me, but that leaves a lack of a word for Pakistan/India/Bangladesh (i personally use “India & co.” which offends my indian&co. friends) ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/69 "2011-08-15T13:55:07Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > i laughed… > > as an asian and an american, i personally don’t find the term oriental offensive at all. it’s actually useful in describing China/Japan/Korea. Vietnam/Thailand/Vietnam/etc. are “South Asians” to me, but that leaves a lack of a word for Pakistan/India/Bangladesh (i personally use “India & co.” which offends my indian&co. friends) In the UK the term “[desi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desi)” often refers to Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities. It’s mainly used by those groups to refer to themselves, but has gained some traction in wider society. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/70 "2011-08-15T14:12:19Z")
When I hear the term, I think of the old Advanced Dungeons and Dragons rulebook “Oriental Adventures” I also perceive the term as non-offensive, but overly quaint. How about the term “East-Asian”? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/71 "2011-08-15T16:46:12Z")
I dunno, maybe they were just Adventures meant to orient you to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/72 "2011-08-15T16:51:26Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Yes, and each becomes regarded as offensive in turn. Well meaning liberals decide the old words are offensive because they are used disparagingly by some people about a particular minority. So they invent a new word. If that word gains acceptance and becomes mainstream, it is used disparagingly by some people about the same particular minority and it is time to invent a new term. Rinse, lather, etc. It’s all so pointless. It has nothing to do with well-meaning liberals. Do you really think it was some liberal group that decided to switch from negro to black or spanish to hispanic or oriental to asian? It’s the people that decide what to call themselves. Liberals then go along with it because they think people should be able to pick their own name. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/73 "2011-08-15T16:56:15Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > When I hear the term, I think of the old Advanced Dungeons and Dragons rulebook “Oriental Adventures” It also makes me think of “oriental noodles”, possibly in casserole form. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/74 "2011-08-15T17:16:01Z")
So you won’t find your Russian foods on that shelf? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/75 "2011-08-15T17:36:46Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > When I hear the term, I think of the old Advanced Dungeons and Dragons rulebook “Oriental Adventures” The “Oriental” of _Oriental Adventures_ was deliberate exoticism, of course (look at the back-cover blurb). It was exactly the basis–_for the purpose_–that people may find offensive applied to real people and places today. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/76 "2011-08-15T17:51:34Z")
Maruchan, a US noodle company, offers [ramen](http://www.meijer.com/assets/product_images/styles/xlarge/1001029_041789002144_A_400.jpg) in “Oriental Flavor” without any apparent controversy. Now, if they were to advertise them as “inscrutably delicious” or some such, that might be playing with fire. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/77 "2011-08-15T19:55:39Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > > [@amarinth](#): > > > > I tend not to notice supermarket signs. > > But if I saw it in the UK, I’d think that things are different in different countries. If I saw it in the US my eyebrows would go straight up and make me wonder about the store. > > Wonder what? Wonder what’s going on there. In the US, “Oriental” has been a non-preferred term for my entire life, and I’m pushing 40. This isn’t a new development, it’s been decades. I also expect that marketing departments of major companies choose their words carefully. So, if I saw that sign (which looks to be mass produced and part of the company’s standard signage) in the US, I would assume that the company has made a conscious decision to use a term with negative connotations. And I would wonder why the store made that choice. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/78 "2011-08-15T23:35:14Z")
In all honesty, the very first thing that popped into my head when I saw the pic was… “Dude, ‘Oriental’ is not the preferred nomenclature.” -Walter Sobchak ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/79 "2011-08-16T04:54:31Z")
Not another thread about “Oriental.” Well, I guess it has been awhile. Again, I don’t find it offensive. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675/80 "2011-08-16T05:06:51Z")
Well, whether people are _offended_ isn’t necessarily the point. Even if no one is really put off by it, there can still be a question of whether it’s the _best_ word. At least three different understandings are referenced in this thread of which region is meant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-reaction-to-this-supermarket-sign/592675.md?page=5)