# US Dopers, would you go to a restaurant that charged higher prices but discouraged tipping? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 4, 2010, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261 "2010-03-04T10:32:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/61 "2010-03-10T16:40:54Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Having lived in Germany, and once working as a waiter over there, I can tell you that in countries where tips are not really a big deal, neither is the service; it generally sucks. I don’t think you’re well-travelled enough to make that sort of claim. The evidence you point to certainly doesn’t support it. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/62 "2010-03-10T16:54:27Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Another incentive would be for the IRS to crack down on all the tax avoidance that tipping generates. Why would a group of restaurants be incentivized to have the IRS crack down on tax avoidance by waitstaff? The OP suggested that a group of restaurants would band together. Not that the goverment would impose this rule change. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/63 "2010-03-10T16:58:36Z")
For my views on tipping, see _Reservoir Dogs_. ---
**Author:** ![taxi78cab](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47c2d/32.png) [@taxi78cab](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taxi78cab)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/64 "2010-03-10T18:38:34Z")
I’m in the group that finds tipping uncomfortable. I never know how much to give, and I would err on the side of more, but my husband is firmly set at 15% and my parents even less. So it’s uncomfortable in part because when I go out with them, I’m afraid the server is getting stiffed. But it _isn’t_ a written rule. And 15% was the norm; I’m sure my husband learned that from his parents, and my parents moved up from their parents’ 10%. (Thank goodness my grandparents got too old to go out or they’d still be leaving 10%!) It adds just a little bit of discomfort to what should be a pleasant time out. I’d much prefer just to pay the (larger) written amount for my meal and be done with it. I really like order-at-the-counter restaurants like Panera, Noodles, Chipotle, etc. that have no tipping policies because it eliminates that sense of unease about how much to leave and worrying about looking cheap. But sometimes I want to go somewhere nicer and I want to have an enjoyable experience, but then the bill comes and I feel awkward and inept. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/65 "2010-03-10T19:01:18Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Having lived in Germany, and once working as a waiter over there, I can tell you that in countries where tips are not really a big deal, neither is the service; it generally sucks. And in my experience, both as a customer and as a waiter, service in non-tipping countries is generally no better and no worse than in the United States. > [@DMark](#): > > Think about it - if you get the same money if you do a good job, or a bad job, what makes you want to go out of your way for a single customer?! Worst I ever saw was back in the East Berlin before the Wall came down. I could be wrong, but i’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that communist East Berlin is possibly not the most reliable example upon which to base a generalized analysis of the culture of tipping versus not tipping. > [@DMark](#): > > They got paid the same no matter if the restaurant was full or empty - so often you would go into a restaurant or a bar and, even though have the tables and seats were free, they claimed the place was full and wouldn’t let you in. You could order something and wait forever to get it, and if they screwed up the order, the attitude was “tough shit - sucks to be you.” I guess it’s possible that, in the places you went to, there was no owner or manager whose had an interest in making sure that customers got served and left happy, but i’m here to tell you that this usually isn’t the case. It may surprise you to know this, but the owners and managers of bars and restaurants in non-tipping societies do not open their establishments as charity homes for slothful waitstaff. They expect to make money, and they know that they can do this by providing good food and good service. If you don’t pull your weight in a restaurant in Australia or the UK or wherever, it might not affect your take-home pay at the end of your shift, but you will soon find yourself without a job at all. The incentive to do a good job is not absent in non-tipping situations; it simply manifests itself in a slightly different way. > [@DMark](#): > > Every foreign visitor I have ever had come visit me in the states has commented on how good the service is, and how friendly the wait staff is - and they they realize that tips are important, and a good thing to keep people on their toes. Again, comes down to personal experience, i guess. I don’t find servers here in the US any more friendly, on the whole, than anywhere else i’ve been. And, in cases where they are “friendly,” it is often the sort of cloying, smarmy, faux-friendliness that drive me (and most of my non-American friends) crazy. > [@DMark](#): > > Yes, working for tips means going the extra mile… I’m not even sure what “going the extra mile means,” in this context. If the server is polite and efficient and does his or her job, that’s all i need. I don’t need them to be my buddy, and i don’t need them falling over themselves to be obsequious. A good waiter is like a good sports official: the less you notice them, the better. ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/66 "2010-03-10T19:09:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > \ A good waiter is like a good sports official: the less you notice them, the better. I agree, but I think that in many ways this is quite a non-American attitude. In my experience—yours may vary—many Americans _like_ the whole intrusive “is everything still ok here? let me just drop down to eye level to flirtatiously take your order” thing. It certainly gets bigger tips. pdts ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2010, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261/67 "2010-03-11T10:02:28Z")
It wouldn’t work. Waitstaff are paid less than minimum wage, while the glorified fast food workers at a Starbucks are paid well above minimum wage - and they still expect to be tipped. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-dopers-would-you-go-to-a-restaurant-that-charged-higher-prices-but-discouraged-tipping/531261.md?page=3)