# US Embassy In Kabul Has Been "Torched" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 26, 2001, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880 "2001-09-26T06:55:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/1 "2001-09-26T06:55:47Z")
Still awake, making little flag pins. Just heard on MSNBC Cable Audio that the US Embassy in Kabul has been “torched” (I put that word in quotes because that’s precisely what the news anchor said). Anyone else heard anything? ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/2 "2001-09-26T07:14:04Z")
Just that. Those exact words, even, on MSNBC. No article ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/3 "2001-09-26T07:17:40Z")
Heard it on CNN a little while ago. They aren’t claiming it’s official because they haven’t had it verified by their man in the field yet. Did we even have people still there? ---
**Author:** ![Persephone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecc23a/32.png) [@Persephone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Persephone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/4 "2001-09-26T07:22:55Z")
The non-essential personnel left a while ago. Don’t know who else is there. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/5 "2001-09-26T07:27:34Z")
I thought CNN was ordered out last week too - which means confirmation will probably come from the journalists of another nation. Our evening news is on right now and there’s nothing being said about it. ---
**Author:** ![niwroc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/34f0e0/32.png) [@niwroc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/niwroc)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/6 "2001-09-26T07:32:56Z")
Well, Yahoo news mentions this: [http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010926/wl/attack\_afghan\_fire\_dc\_1.html](http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010926/wl/attack_afghan_fire_dc_1.html) But note “The Gulf Arab Jazeera television network said…” ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/7 "2001-09-26T07:44:55Z")
I just googled this and came up with the following link - [http://travel.state.gov/afghanistan.html](http://travel.state.gov/afghanistan.html). The info is from the US State Department - even if they did “torch” the embassy, it would have been symbolic > [@](#): > > All U.S. personnel at the U.S. Embassy in Kabul were evacuated in 1989, and no other diplomatic mission represents U.S. interests or provides consular services. . ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/8 "2001-09-26T08:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Persephone \* > \*\*Still awake, making little flag pins. Just heard on MSNBC Cable Audio that the US Embassy in Kabul has been “torched” (I put that word in quotes because that’s precisely what the news anchor said). > > Anyone else heard anything? \*\* I’m confused. I was under the impression that we didn’t have any official diplomatic relations with Afghanistan. Why would they need an embassy with a country they have no official relationship with? Marc ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/9 "2001-09-26T08:51:59Z")
That would most likely be the old embassy site. It’s probably owned by the US. Of course, it would be incorrect to refer to it as the US embassy in Kabul since there is no diplomatic misson nor official US government representation carried out there. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/10 "2001-09-26T08:58:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I was under the impression that we didn’t have any official diplomatic relations with Afghanistan. Why would they need an embassy with a country they have no official relationship with? I thought it was just that we don’t have any diplomatic relations with the Taliban, but still recognize “Afghanistan” as an official country (as opposed to, say, pretending it doesn’t exist by printing all our maps with a new inland ocean between Iran and Pakistan). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/11 "2001-09-26T11:07:29Z")
According to CNN this morning (Central European Time), that embassy has been abandoned since 1989. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/12 "2001-09-26T11:18:40Z")
I just heard on the news a few mins. ago that the embassy had been (paraphrasing) “[invaded by a crowd] a few cars in the parking lot were set on fire, and the embassy itself was also set afire… but no word on the damages…” Cars in the parking lot? Who would have been there, a caretaking staff?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Geobabe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/geobabe/32/3908_2.png) [@Geobabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Geobabe)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/13 "2001-09-26T11:33:03Z")
[From the AP](http://wire.ap.org/APnews/main.html?SLUG=ATTACKS-AFGHANISTAN), “Thousands protested at the abandoned U.S. Embassy compound in the Afghan capital of Kabul on Wednesday, burning cars and tearing down the U.S. seal.” No word on whose cars they were or who, if anyone, might have been in the building. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/14 "2001-09-26T11:38:35Z")
The news reports here are saying “former US embassy” or “abandoned US embassy”. As the State Department link I gave above indicates, this building has not operated as an embassy, nor has the US had diplomatic relations with Afghanistan for, the last 12 years. So while the building itself might be technically owned by the US government (in fact it might not be, embassy buildings are quite often leased), the building hasn’t been US sovereign territory for over a decade. I doubt that the locals have avoided using the carpark for the last 12 years simply because it **used** to be the US embassy. My bet is that the cars in the carpark will have nothing to do with the US gov’t - you don’t break off diplomatic relations with a country and then park your cars in a space to which diplomatic immunity used to extend, you just don’t. I don’t know how many of the previous discussions about diplomatic relations, embassies, and sovereign territory got lost in the big pruning - I’ll try to hunt some of them up. According to tonight’s news the **only** country which is still maintaining diplomatic relations with Afghanistan is Pakistan. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/15 "2001-09-26T11:38:44Z")
Sounds like little more than a symbolic gesture. Burning the U.S. in effigy, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![reprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@reprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/reprise)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/16 "2001-09-26T12:00:30Z")
I called the gesture ‘symbolic’ because what the building most emphatically is **not** and hasn’t been for the last 12 years, is US **territory** which an operational embassy would be have been. The symbol of your nation may have been burned in effigy, and a building owned by it may have been burned, but that building had no more “status” or right to sovereignty than the local McDonalds. It was the most visible target for the Taliban and its supporters to rally around and destroy on their own soil, but in real terms, it was just a long-abandoned building - not one from which US diplomatic staff were expelled or fled days ago. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/17 "2001-09-26T13:11:59Z")
Well, of course we have an embassy in Afghanistan, where else is the Taliban going to get their visa’s processed so they can come to US flight schools? ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/18 "2001-09-26T13:31:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > \*\*I thought CNN was ordered out last week too - which means confirmation will probably come from the journalists of another nation. > \*\* CNN has a guy in one of the Northern Alliance camps. He has some sort of phone link. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/19 "2001-09-26T13:47:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arden Ranger \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by reprise \* > > \*\*I thought CNN was ordered out last week too - which means confirmation will probably come from the journalists of another nation. > > \*\* > > CNN has a guy in one of the Northern Alliance camps. He has some sort of phone link. \*\* And how will he get any accurate infos about what’s happening in Kabul, if he’s in a Northern Alliance camp? By the way, I don’t think there are any western journalist left in Kabul. ---
**Author:** ![CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crankyasanoldman/32/11670_2.png) [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrankyAsAnOldMan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2001, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880/20 "2001-09-26T13:51:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arden Ranger \* > \*\* > > CNN has a guy in one of the Northern Alliance camps. He has some sort of phone link. \*\* The BBC has some people there too. One of them was just reporting, this morning, on how the rebels are fighting. The news from Afghanistan that has me more upset is the masses of people at the border, waiting for Pakistan for reopen it. They’re finally fleeing, getting away from those bastard Taliban idiots who have driven their country into the ground, and they lack shelter from the sun and adequate water while they are waiting. The Red Cross/Red Crescent is trying to mobilize supplies to get ready for the influx when the border reopens. It sounds like things might be very desperate. Maybe a million people? The Red Cross is committed to helping 250,000, and hope the other relief agencies can get the rest. If those bastards had spent some of the effort they expended on destroying buddhist statues and used it on looking after their own people… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-in-kabul-has-been-torched/83880.md?page=2)