# US embassy to Vatican City **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2020, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355 "2020-03-26T19:49:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/21 "2020-04-02T04:52:50Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > I’d like to skip in that many countries (but not the United States) actually operate three embassies in Rome\ . . . The US _does_ operate three embassies in Rome - one to Italy, one to the Holy See, one to the UN agencies based in Rome (the Food and Agriculture Organisation, the World Food Programme, I forget the third one). The represention to the UN agencies is formally called a mission, rather than an embassy, but nothing turns on that. And there are definitely three American ambassadors in Rome, since the mission to the UN agencies is headed by an ambassador. Which raises the interesting, if trivial, question - are there any countries with _four_ diplomatic missions in Rome - one to each of the above, plus one to the Order of Malta? Fun fact: the Republic of Malta accredits an ambassador to the Order of Malta! ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/22 "2020-04-02T07:40:41Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I don’t know who was pope in 1984, but the Holy\_See/Vatican was working on international relations in general. Actually the Holy See is quite active internationally, and not only recently - it has had diplomatic relations with many countries for centuries. It’s not a UN member, but does participate in some UN special agencies, and also maintains bilateral relations with many countries. It is one of the few players on the diplomatic scene which recognises the Republic of China (i.e., Taiwan) as the legitimate representative of China, rather that the People’s Republic (i.e., the mainland regime) in the ongoing China/Taiwan dispute. In many countries, the ambassador _from_ the Holy See (called Apostolic Nuncio) enjoys a special status: He automatically serves as dean of the diplomatic corps, i.e., the foremost of the foreign ambassadors accredited to the country. It’s only a matter of protocol and ceremony rather than one of actual priority, but it does carry some prestige. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/23 "2020-04-02T07:44:30Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > The US _does_ operate three embassies in Rome - one to Italy, one to the Holy See, one to the UN agencies based in Rome (the Food and Agriculture Organisation, the World Food Programme, I forget the third one). The represention to the UN agencies is formally called a mission, rather than an embassy, but nothing turns on that. And there are definitely three American ambassadors in Rome, since the mission to the UN agencies is headed by an ambassador. Thanks for that, I wasnt aware of it. > [@](#): > > Which raises the interesting, if trivial, question - are there any countries with _four_ diplomatic missions in Rome - one to each of the above, plus one to the Order of Malta? Indeed an interesting question. The Rome phone directory entry for “diplomatic missions” must be quite lengthy! > [@](#): > > Fun fact: the Republic of Malta accredits an ambassador to the Order of Malta! And vice versa - on a trip to that island, I once walked past the embassy of the Order of Malta to the Republic of Malta. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/24 "2020-04-02T17:00:26Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I don’t know who was pope in 1984, but the Holy\_See/Vatican was working on international relations in general. Either as a result of changes in relations with Italy happening at that time, or as a cause. In the case of the UK, the reason for the change in 1982 was John Paul II’s visit, the first to Britain by a reigning Pope. That was partly to reciprocate for the Queen’s first state visit to the Vatican two years earlier. In anticipation of the Pope’s visit, the British government upgraded its Envoy Extraordinary to Ambassador, while the Vatican upgraded its Apostolic Delegate in London to Apostolic Pro-Nuncio. While all this wasn’t completely unconnected to Cold War politics, it was more directly about the British government not wanting to be seen as an obstacle to Catholic-Anglican ecumenical efforts. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/25 "2020-04-02T17:17:10Z")
> [@APB](#): > > The Vatican refuses to recognise ambassadors to the Holy See who are also the ambassador to Italy and it isn’t hugely keen on the current trend for countries to house the two embassies in the same building. Interesting. San Marino doesn’t get huffy about it. > **[San Marino–United States relations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Marino%E2%80%93United_States_relations)** > > San Marino and the United States enjoy friendly diplomatic relations. > During the American Civil War, San Marino proposed a republican alliance with the United States, and the government made American President Abraham Lincoln an honorary citizen. He accepted the offer in a letter dated May 7, 1861, saying that the republic proved that "Although your dominion is small, your State is nevertheless one of the most honored, in all history. It has by its experience demonstrated the truth, so full of e... ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/26 "2020-04-02T17:55:45Z")
> [@APB](#): > > The Vatican refuses to recognise ambassadors to the Holy See who are also the ambassador to Italy I didn’t know that. Apparently, however, it accepts other countries having one ambassador to the Holy See and the Order of Malta at the same time (at least Germany does so, I just checked the website of the German embassy to the two). As for costs: It may not appear terribly efficient, but then again, an embassy to the Holy See (and/or the Order of Malta, for that matter) doesn’t need to be very big. For instance, you can save yourself pretty much the entire visa business (which often makes up a huge chunk of the daily affairs of an embassy) since the Holy See and the Order of Malta have very few people to whom they issue passports, and those select few who do hold such passports would typically be of diplomatic rank anyway. In essence, such an embassy would only need a handful of liaison officers between the two governments, and that would be it. Germany also seems to have a tradition of appointing Roman Catholics as ambassadors to the Holy See. I found that quite interesting; on the one hand it appears to be logical and self-suggesting, but when you come to think of it I’d suppose it would make sense to specifically appoint non-Catholics to that post, since they would be less likely to have split loyalties should the interests of the two governments really clash. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2020, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355/27 "2020-04-03T00:11:36Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Actually the Holy See is quite active internationally, and not only recently - it has had diplomatic relations with many countries for centuries. It’s not a UN member, but does participate in some UN special agencies, and also maintains bilateral relations with many countries. It is one of the few players on the diplomatic scene which recognises the Republic of China (i.e., Taiwan) as the legitimate representative of China, rather that the People’s Republic (i.e., the mainland regime) in the ongoing China/Taiwan dispute. > > In many countries, the ambassador _from_ the Holy See (called Apostolic Nuncio) enjoys a special status: He automatically serves as dean of the diplomatic corps, i.e., the foremost of the foreign ambassadors accredited to the country. It’s only a matter of protocol and ceremony rather than one of actual priority, but it does carry some prestige. Yes, that whole thing about the 6 wives of Henry the VIII was about international politics. Henry wanted to be in charge of the church in England, in a similar way to the way the Italian state had formal control of church appointments up until the mid 1980’s. International politics isn’t always front of mind. There was something specific happening in the early 1980’s [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-embassy-to-vatican-city/850355.md?page=1)