# US Employers and SSN Checking **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 1, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608 "2009-04-01T19:06:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/1 "2009-04-01T19:06:48Z")
Over in [this Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=512557) there’s a dust up about illegal immigrants. Eva Luna posted a link to a paper about undocumented immigrants paying taxes, which says: > [@](#): > > The Social Security Administration (SSA) has concluded that undocumented immigrants “account for a major portion” of the billions of dollars paid into the Social Security system under **names or social security numbers that don’t match SSA records** ; payments from which immigrants cannot benefit while undocumented.5 As of October 2005, the reported earnings on which these payments are based—which are tracked through the SSA’s Earnings Suspense File (ESF)—totaled $520 billion. (bolding mine) So my question is this - why doesn’t the government give employers easy, cheap and/or mandatory ways to check out W2 information? I’m an employer and I’ve never had to verify anything about anyone I’ve ever hired. Can’t the SSA easily take submissions of names and SSNs and run a check? Can’t they tell employers if the SSNs belong to a deceased person? Or if the ages don’t match up? I realize you can do a background check on employees but those aren’t cheap and aren’t feasible for most employers. Plus, lots of employers probably do not want to lose candidates because of past records - but they’d like to at least know if they’re straight with the IRS. Maybe employers didn’t care so much before if the SSN was valid but with state governments cracking down on employers these days you’d think the federal government would throw everyone a bone. I may be woefully ignorant of the system, though. Is there already something in place? ---
**Author:** ![Otanx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Otanx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otanx)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/2 "2009-04-01T19:30:49Z")
I can’t get to the article linked it is blocked at work. From what I understand the SSA is getting $520B that will never be asked for. You want them to spend money to stop getting money? -Otanx ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/3 "2009-04-01T19:37:11Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I’m an employer and I’ve never had to verify anything about anyone I’ve ever hired. [Uh-oh.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-9_(form)) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/4 "2009-04-01T19:43:46Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I’m an employer and I’ve never had to verify anything about anyone I’ve ever hired. Seriously? You don’t get I-9s from people? And they have to fill out W-4s, too. How do you hire them? ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/5 "2009-04-01T19:58:18Z")
Sorry, I meant W4 information in my OP not W2. I have W4s for everyone I’ve hired (all of 5 people). I don’t recall if we ever did I-9s but if they’re required I’m sure my accountants had me submit them. But if I am doing this stuff so are other employers. Only they’re submitting the info their employees gave them - which may or may not be fake. If the info is fake and this is a problem worthy of fining or jailing employers, why don’t we have resources available to us to make sure they’re not fake? ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/6 "2009-04-01T19:59:15Z")
I assume that refers to not double checking the information provided on W-4s and I-9s. The gov’t does in fact provide a SSN verification service for employers - see here: > **[Employer Filing Instructions & Information - SSNVS Pamphlet](https://www.ssa.gov/employer/ssnvspamphlet.htm)** > > SSNVS Pamphlet information ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/7 "2009-04-01T20:02:02Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Seriously? You don’t get I-9s from people? And they have to fill out W-4s, too. How do you hire them? Neither an I-9 nor a W-4 will verify an SSN. The employer is expected to take it for granted that the employee is telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/8 "2009-04-01T20:15:56Z")
From **Harriet the Spry** ’s link: "Social Security will verify SSNs and names solely to ensure the records of current or former employees are correct for the purpose of completing Internal Revenue Service Form W-2 (Wage and Tax Statement). A current employee is defined as a person who has received and accepted a job offer. **It is illegal to use the service to verify SSNs of potential new hires or contractors or in the preparation of tax returns.**" There’s a whole list of things you can and can’t do with that service, and most of them point to uhm…not being able to use the service at all. So basically you have to hire someone and hope that their SSN info is correct. If it’s incorrect and they’re illegal and you get caught, tough beans. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/9 "2009-04-01T20:20:43Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Neither an I-9 nor a W-4 will verify an SSN. The employer is expected to take it for granted that the employee is telling the truth. That’s not really what she said, though, she said: I’m an employer and I’ve never had to verify anything about anyone I’ve ever hired. But yes, we have often complained that we don’t really know how to recognize a false ID and wouldn’t if it smacked us in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/10 "2009-04-01T20:25:29Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > From **Harriet the Spry** ’s link: > > "Social Security will verify SSNs and names solely to ensure the records of current or former employees are correct for the purpose of completing Internal Revenue Service Form W-2 (Wage and Tax Statement). > A current employee is defined as a person who has received and accepted a job offer. > > **It is illegal to use the service to verify SSNs of potential new hires or contractors or in the preparation of tax returns.**" > > There’s a whole list of things you can and can’t do with that service, and most of them point to uhm…not being able to use the service at all. > > So basically you have to hire someone and hope that their SSN info is correct. If it’s incorrect and they’re illegal and you get caught, tough beans. But you can make a job offer, they accept the offer, **then** you verify the SSN with the service. If there’s a problem at that point, you can terminate their employment. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/11 "2009-04-01T20:27:41Z")
Sorry to be misleading **Anaamika** - **Fear Itself** got what I meant. I’ve had to SUBMIT info but never have been required to or offered the ability to VERIFY it. Also, any and all of that stuff that has to be submitted with the I9 (as per the Wikipedia link) can be faked as well as any other documents. All I’m required to do is make sure it looks good enough. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/12 "2009-04-01T20:28:27Z")
> [@Otanx](#): > > From what I understand the SSA is getting $520B that will never be asked for. As I read it, they are getting the tax on $520B of earnings. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/13 "2009-04-01T20:29:43Z")
It’s been a long time since I started working with a new employer, but I seem to remember every new job I ever got requiring me to actually produce my Social Security card. I don’t get how so many people are getting around that. Is there that big a business in forging Social Security cards? ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/14 "2009-04-01T20:29:58Z")
Well, the I9 requests you as the employer to obtain two forms of ID, one from column A and one from column B. Those are supposed to help weed out anyone from just putting down any ole nine digit number and name. Since the form is not submitted to anyone but kept in a file in case of an audit, I am getting the impression that the OP isn’t obtaining the necessary information on new hires. An accountant would have nothing to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/15 "2009-04-01T20:30:32Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Sorry to be misleading **Anaamika** - **Fear Itself** got what I meant. I’ve had to SUBMIT info but never have been required to or offered the ability to VERIFY it. > > Also, any and all of that stuff that has to be submitted with the I9 (as per the Wikipedia link) can be faked as well as any other documents. All I’m required to do is make sure it looks good enough. Ah, yes, I agree with you there - same here and we have often said the same thing. Really, how am I supposed to know if someone’s passport is a real passport or not? ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/16 "2009-04-01T20:34:01Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > It’s been a long time since I started working with a new employer, but I seem to remember every new job I ever got requiring me to actually produce my Social Security card. I don’t get how so many people are getting around that. Is there that big a business in forging Social Security cards? I look at it this way. If someone wants to work for me bad enough to create an entire new birth certificate, drivers license and SS card, I am off the hook if it is ever questioned. I think the majority of employers that knowingly are hiring undocumented workers are…well…not checking for documentation. All these things have to match…and if the SS number isn’t correct or doesn’t correspond to the name the IRS has on file, I get a letter about that too. In essence, you’d have to figure out a way to create an entire new person from scratch (or bring a dead one back to life I guess). ---
**Author:** ![Foxy40](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Foxy40](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Foxy40)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/17 "2009-04-01T20:35:49Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Ah, yes, I agree with you there - same here and we have often said the same thing. Really, how am I supposed to know if someone’s passport is a real passport or not? Well you aren’t so that is why more than one form of identification is needed. However, if someone wants to go to the trouble of creating a person with multiple forms of ID, there really isn’t too much to be done about that. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/18 "2009-04-01T20:37:32Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > So basically you have to hire someone and hope that their SSN info is correct. If it’s incorrect and they’re illegal and you get caught, tough beans. I’m not certain that is true. Certainly the employee who falsified the information will face a penalty, but I don’t believe an employer who complied with the I-9 process and hired someone they accordingly believed to be eligible in good faith and without notice of any fraud would be punished. Maybe I’m wrong. The I-9 is basically a one-page form that requires [65 pages of instructions](http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/m-274_3apr09.pdf), so who knows what could be in there. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/19 "2009-04-01T20:45:24Z")
> [@Foxy40](#): > > Since the form is not submitted to anyone but kept in a file in case of an audit, I am getting the impression that the OP isn’t obtaining the necessary information on new hires. An accountant would have nothing to do with that. Well, just to keep my good name good - I am intimately acquainted with all the people I’ve ever hired. One being me, one being my brother and the others are guys I’ve known since I was a teenager. I also haven’t hired anyone since 2001 so I just don’t remember what I have on file for them (I definitely have a W4). It’s not like I’m hiring throngs of people or anyone I might suspect of fraud. I was also under the impression that it’s common practice for people looking to sneak across the border to pay for all of these fake or forged documents, and it’s really a huge investment on their parts. Is that not as common as I think? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608/20 "2009-04-01T21:18:48Z")
> [@Otanx](#): > > I can’t get to the article linked it is blocked at work. From what I understand the SSA is getting $520B that will never be asked for. You want them to spend money to stop getting money? > > -Otanx Where do you get the idea that “illegal aliens” can’t get Social Security? I mean if they later become “legal”. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-and-ssn-checking/491608.md?page=2)