# US employers looking down on the unemployed and those taking assistance **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 13, 2011, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182 "2011-02-13T02:18:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/141 "2011-02-15T18:21:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I would LOVE to know where you live that the construction trades are booming. You haven’t answered that, either. Southwest Ohio. A few hours’ drive from you. Heck, I’m trying to get a pole barn built in my backyard, and am having a hard time finding a contractor who can do it _this year_. That’s how busy they are. **Broomstick** , countless people in much much worse circumstances have successfully turned their lives around. And it was not due to luck. ---
**Author:** ![Omerta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Omerta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omerta)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/142 "2011-02-15T18:24:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’m more inclined to think there is something ELSE wrong with your “system” that is driving people away than just long hours. You can always find someone willing to work the hours, but your turnover rate is insane. You really need to look at everything, including possible abuse by lower management like shift supervisors. We have 1 night supervisor and 2 day ones. We always ask for a exit interview. 3 times it came up that the employee didn’t like the supervisor. That’s 3 times in 8 years. If anyone could come up with a way to get the hours down other than just saying “Higher more people” I would take it to my boss. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/143 "2011-02-15T18:32:55Z")
Good lord - you’re relying on _exit interviews?_ Have you considered that those same supervisors might be threatening people with a bad reference if they do complain? No, you need to spend some time _actually observing_ what is going on at the work floor. You need to find out WHY so many people won’t stay. Saying “everyone is lazy” doesn’t cut it. Your experience is NOT normal, not in a good economy much less a bad one. Something is seriously, seriously wrong with your company and you need to find out what it is. Hiring more people won’t work - you need to _convince people to stay_. You clearly have no problem hiring, it’s the keeping your company fails at. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/144 "2011-02-15T18:40:33Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Southwest Ohio. A few hours’ drive from you. Heck, I’m trying to get a pole barn built in my backyard, and am having a hard time finding a contractor who can do it _this year_. That’s how busy they are. I need the name of a city. Or are you suggesting I simply drive to SW Ohio and wander around at random? Seriously. If it’s that good I want a specific location. Otherwise you’re just taunting me. IF your area truly has a shortage of available contractors giving me specific information is to BOTH our benefits - folks up here get work, and folks where you are get stuff built. But go ahead and remain coy. > [@](#): > > **Broomstick** , countless people in much much worse circumstances have successfully turned their lives around. And it was not due to luck. WHERE did I say I was relying on luck? Where? Nowhere. I am working my ass off _when I can get work_. Last May and June I was working 80 hours a week, that’s hardly lazy. If I was relying on luck I’d be buying lottery tickets every week. I don’t. I’m relying on finding work, including spending this current down time (as not much gets built in NW Indiana December-February) looking into alternatives, doing research, and educating/training myself in further tool use and construction techniques and requirements. That’s why instead of remaining the cleaning woman I’m moving up into actual building. But you’re a fool if you think that sort of change can take place overnight in ANY economy. One has to build up necessary experience and practice in techniques. IF the economy was doing better I’d be advancing more quickly because I’d be getting more work and experience, but hey, all that I do will never be enough for you. I didn’t get a new permanent job within three months of being laid off so as far as you’re concerned I’m a hopeless loser. :rolleyes: Frankly - I think your back up plan of “work for my buddies in construction” is nowhere near as failproof as you think. As I keep saying, I hope you never have to find that out personally. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/145 "2011-02-15T18:49:23Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > A number of my friends are contractors (electric, concrete, etc.). They are _always_ looking for good workers. If I were laid off today, I would be working for them tomorrow. I would also be looking for a permanent job. I would not collect unemployment. > > Accepting unemployment would make me feel icky and lazy. I blame it on being raised by German Catholic parents. 😛 For better or worse, they taught me to get up at 5 AM everyday and work hard all day, and to only accept compensation for work performed. Yes, I know this is not logical since I “paid into” unemployment. But I can’t help it; it’s just the way I am. I _have_ to work. A number of **your** friends are contractors. What if a person does not have a friend who has the ability to hire someone.? They are always looking for\*\* good workers\*\*. That sounds like you have experience in general contracting work. What if my friends who can hire, do some sort of work I know nothing about? Because you have personal issues with taking public assistance doesn’t mean that world should feel the shame you would. Public assistance does not pay all the bills. It does not offer a comfortable lifestyle. It is absolutely soul crushing to go through the application process. And I’ve never bought lobster with food stamps. So tell me Crafter\_Man, I’ve been unemployeed for over a year. Should I just blow my fucking brains out and decrese the surplus population? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/146 "2011-02-15T20:33:42Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I need the name of a city. Or are you suggesting I simply drive to SW Ohio and wander around at random? Seriously. If it’s that good I want a specific location. Otherwise you’re just taunting me. All around Dayton. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/147 "2011-02-15T20:59:29Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > So tell me Crafter\_Man, I’ve been unemployeed for over a year. Should I just blow my fucking brains out and decrese the surplus population? No, but (getting back to the OP) I certainly wouldn’t hire you. (And I \*am \*a hiring authority where I work.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/148 "2011-02-15T21:05:45Z")
> [@Omerta](#): > > We have 1 night supervisor and 2 day ones. We always ask for a exit interview. 3 times it came up that the employee didn’t like the supervisor. That’s 3 times in 8 years. If anyone could come up with a way to get the hours down other than just saying “Higher more people” I would take it to my boss. What reasons do they give, then? But, if you check out threads around here about quitting jobs, you’ll know that the advice is to never complain at an exit interview. It can come back to bite you, and no company will ever change because people complain as they are leaving. The supervisor no doubt said that they person leaving was lazy or something, right? Having started working for the Bell System, I can assure you that a company being around since 1912 is not guarantee of management competence. How long was GM around when they drove themselves into bankruptcy? New people are disruptive. There is the training, and the fact that unless they need skills above what you can teach a monkey, they aren’t going to be as productive as experienced people. It also costs time and money to recruit, even if just to look over the resumes. If your boss doesn’t know this, he is not a competent boss. If he doesn’t realize that a worker isn’t as productive in hour 12 of a day as in hour 2, he also isn’t a very competent boss. And hiring more people when there is more work doesn’t require an MBA to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/149 "2011-02-15T21:20:55Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Good lord - you’re relying on _exit interviews?_ Have you considered that those same supervisors might be threatening people with a bad reference if they do complain? To be fair though, if you’re quitting after only a few days (as Omerta claims many of his workers are doing), you probably shouldn’t expect a good reference anyway. And if people really are that eager to leave that they’re not giving two weeks, or apparently even two days notice, I’m also wondering if many of them are even bothering to go through with exit interviews, as opposed to just not showing up for their next shift. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/150 "2011-02-15T21:25:11Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > All around Dayton. Well, I’ll look into that. While I do not have the chops to run a project at this point I know people who do. Thanks for the tip. You may or may not see me later in the year. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/151 "2011-02-15T21:29:35Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > To be fair though, if you’re quitting after only a few days (as Omerta claims many of his workers are doing), you probably shouldn’t expect a good reference anyway. Yes, but if they’re quitting while _in training_ then they won’t be complaining about the two daytime supervisor or the nighttime supervisor they’ve never worked under, and likely have never even met. Something else is driving people away. If they could figure out why people are leaving so quickly and fix that then their current rate of hiring would quickly result in sufficient employees as to drop work weeks to a much more sane 40-50 hours (I’m assuming some overtime will be required at some point) and not have to pay out so much time and a half. Right now, all the blame is being put on new hires. I have to wonder what the heck is so scary people are jumping ship even before training is over? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/152 "2011-02-15T21:43:16Z")
Its the three headed dog they keep in the break room. Drives people away. It does seem screwed up. And from an unemployment standpoint - we make people pay time and a half just to encourage them to hire more people instead of making people work 60 hour work weeks because it generally - in a widget factory - isn’t cost effective to pay that much overtime. I have seen that happen in small communities where the factory pretty much sucks in all the available labor. (I used to work for Green Giant, we had packing plants in the middle of nowhere). You get into this catch 22 - you have all the available labor willing to work hard working overtime. You’d like to give them a break and hire more people, but the people you bring in are scared off by the hours and don’t want a 60 hour week. So you couldn’t hire to cut down on the overtime, but the overtime was the reason you couldn’t hire. And beans need to be packed in season - you can’t let them sit - the line needs to keep moving. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/153 "2011-02-15T23:01:39Z")
All I can say is I put up a notice at Traactor Supply looking for general help doing farm chores. I put the notice up a month before Christmas, saying I’d pay $8.50/hr cash for someone not afraid to sweat. $8.50 isn’t a lot of money, but if you were working a real job you’d have to be hired at $11/hr to bring home that much. I got 3 calls. Two people never bothered to show up. The third, a teenaged boy, came and worked for a week until my jobs were done. He showed up on time, worked hard and got paid in cash at the end of each day and was always glad to come back the next day. Thet two adults who both made arrangements to come out never bothered to call or show. So much for needing money. Middle Tennessee may not be as bad as some places, but I was talking to the manager at Tractor Supply and she told me she’d just had to let two people go because they couldn’t pass the drug screening. She couldn’t get reliable people to work. StG ---
**Author:** ![UncleNito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7cd45c/32.png) [@UncleNito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleNito)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/154 "2011-02-16T02:11:48Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > $8.50 isn’t a lot of money, but if you were working a real job you’d have to be hired at $11/hr to bring home that much. > StG Why is that? Do you expect your farmhands to commit tax evasion? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/155 "2011-02-16T03:04:40Z")
There are a large number of people who assume that if you pay someone in cash they won’t report their earnings. No doubt they think me a fool because I do so - but having no reportable income would actually cause me some harm. There is also the fact that if you only have enough for work for a small amount of money to be paid out - say, $400 - you as the employer actually don’t’ have to report it. And depending on other factors the person you pay may not have to either. So it does depend on how many hours total he was intending to employ this person during the year. But yes, paying someone $8.50 an hour in cash then saying “You’d have to be getting $11.00 an hour at some other job to take that home” does show a lack of comprehension that, past a remarkably low amount, that person paid in cash does, actually, have to pay taxes out of that amount. Including a charming one called the “self-employment tax” (probably one of the most honest labellings in government, really) ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/156 "2011-02-16T03:12:45Z")
Nice job ignoring anecdotes that don’t support your views, Broomstick. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/157 "2011-02-16T04:08:35Z")
The plural of anecdotes is not data, **Rand**. You’re smart enough to know that. Nor am I in any way compelled to answer you. Most of time I’m happier ignoring you. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/158 "2011-02-16T04:30:11Z")
**UncleNito** - I figure if I employ a teenager for a week, how they report their income is their responsibility. I’m not going to withhold taxes and give them a W-2 for 35 hours of work. **Broomstick** - $8.50 an hour is about what they can expect doing retail. I guess you’re not too worried about your $223.14 in the bank if you don’t want my $340. When I lost my job 6 years ago, I started working nights at Target doing stocking. Depending on the season, I’d go in from midnight to 2:00 am and work until it was done. That left me the days to find a better job. It wasn’t enough to pay my two mortgages, let alone the rest of my bills. But those checks were more than I’d’ve made sitting on my butt complaining about the lack of jobs. StG ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/159 "2011-02-16T04:42:17Z")
Um… WHERE are you getting this bizarre notion that I somehow _wouldn’t_ work for $8.50 an hour? Honestly, these last few years I’ve taken jobs that paid less than that. All I said was that if you paid me cash I actually _would_ report the income as I am legally required to do and pay whatever taxes apply. I really don’t understand how you leap from that to I somehow don’t want your money. Unless, of course, YOU don’t want it reported that you’re paying someone in cash. For whatever reason. Which is not my problem. If the entire job is only $340 then no, legally YOU don’t have to report it. If I was working a regular job and was doing your bit as a side job then no, I wouldn’t have to report it, either. But given my circumstances of working a lot of little jobs all the cash payments add up to something I do, in fact, need to report. Again, I don’t see how you leap from that to thinking I don’t want to work. I take odd jobs that only earn me $20 at times. No job too small you might say. I am not, in fact, “sitting on my ass and complaining”. Never ceases to amaze me how I can say over and over _exactly_ what I’m doing yet there’s always three or four in a thread who somehow still think I’m sitting home doing nothing all day. Or maybe you’ve confused me with someone else. And I’m so happy that six years ago you found a job at Target. Guess what, this isn’t six years ago. Target isn’t hiring in my area, and hasn’t been for several years. In fact, they’re laying people off every couple of months. Nonetheless, I keep applying about every six months because, you know, one day they will start hiring again. Just not right now apparently. Wouldn’t have minded doing farm chores, actually, but Tennessee is a bit far to commute from where I live. The cost of going down there and paying for housing for a week would have been greater than what I earned. Even if I’m poor I can’t afford to operate at a loss you know. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182/160 "2011-02-16T12:09:03Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > All I can say is I put up a notice at Traactor Supply looking for general help doing farm chores. I put the notice up a month before Christmas, saying I’d pay $8.50/hr cash for someone not afraid to sweat. $8.50 isn’t a lot of money, but if you were working a real job you’d have to be hired at $11/hr to bring home that much. > > I got 3 calls. Two people never bothered to show up. The third, a teenaged boy, came and worked for a week until my jobs were done. He showed up on time, worked hard and got paid in cash at the end of each day and was always glad to come back the next day. Thet two adults who both made arrangements to come out never bothered to call or show. So much for needing money.StG I have a buddy who owns a roofing company. He is always hiring, and I think starts his guys off at around $10/hour. He can’t find people willing to do the work. Last year I needed some painting done on my house. So I asked a buddy of mine, who is on unemployment, if he wanted to do some work for me. (He was always complaining about not having enough money.) All of the sudden he started grumbling about his “knee problems” and “back problems.” I told him to forget it. He went back to playing video games all day. Many people say they want a job. But when push comes to shove, they don’t _ **really** _ want a job. Much easier to stay at home on unemployment or welfare and play on the computer all day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-employers-looking-down-on-the-unemployed-and-those-taking-assistance/571182.md?page=9)