US Employment Law: can an employer give fewer than 2 work-weeks of vacation?

A worker in the US earns 20-25% more than a worker in Germany. That maps very closely to the fact that Germans have large mandated vacations and Americans do not. Employers just factor the paid time off into the overall compensation.

We can argue the relative merits. I don’t think there’s a single right and wrong - you just have to understand that there are cultural differences represented here.

Here’s just a couple of examples: my wife got two weeks of paid vacation for years at her employer. When they fired her, she had stockpiled two months’ worth. We were perfectly happy with short weekend trips and a longer week at Christmas and simply did not need the second week a year when it was offered. I had a teacher in high school who stockpiled two years worth of vacation time so that he could retire early. (The school district then changed the policy and made vacation time non-cumulative so that you had to use it or lose it. It was very unpopular.)

“Well, the job sounds great, and the pay is good… How much vacation do I get?”

“Oh, well… We don’t allow you to have any vacation or sick days. We expect you to be here every single day, including holidays.”

“You guys are nuts. Goodbye.”
I’m not sure if there are any laws requiring vacation, the consensus seems to be no, but any employer actually looking to actually hire anyone is going to offer vacation time. Not a great amount, but even the low skill factory job i took once in an emergency gave 1 week a year paid vacation.

Vacation time also varies widely by industry. I went from a Big 4 accounting firm where the lowest-level employes started with 18 days of vacation in their first year, to my current job for a big retailer where even upper management get only one week after their first six months, and two weeks every year after that (with an increase after five years). In fact I’d have to be here for fifteen years to get the maximum amount of vacation, and it’ll be less than when I left the other place.

But weighed against the better job, slightly higher pay, and lower stress, I made the switch.

And regarding negotiating for additional time: the smaller the company, the more likely you are able to do that. Really big companies will haggle salary with you, but they don’t like to make exceptions to vacation policy (because the calculations are programmed into their HRIS system).

I once ran into an opposite problem. I wanted to skip my lunch break and leave an hour early.
I had night classes and needed the extra hour.

Didn’t fly. I was told my lunch hour was mandatory.

Not necessarily. In CA they have a pretty strict interpretation of who gets to be exempt salaried.

In California paid sick time is not a requirement. And any accured sick pay is lost upon leaving a company. Some companies give PTO inplace of vacation and sick pay and this has to be paid out.

I have been working in Ca since 1970. Left many jobs had to go to the labor commissioner to get vacation pay a few times, but was never able to collect accured sick time. Both union and non union jobs.

If you work over 6 hours your employeer is required to give you a 30 minute lunch break. If you work 8 straight with no lunch your employeer is in trouble.

Not at the place I used to work. If you took part of a day of vacation, but then came in and worked, you did not get overtime, even if the total was over 8 hours. 4 hours of vacation time + 6 hours actual work = 10 hours of straight time pay.

Of course, that company had one of the best vacation policies in the area then. If you were hired in the first 3 months of the year, you got a full 2 weeks of vacation the next year, otherwise it was prorated, 1 day per month you worked. (Obviously, you didn’t want to get hired in December. :p) After 5 years, you got another week, then at 15 years another week. At 25 years, you got 5 weeks of vacation.

I worked with one man that retired after 26 years, then had to start working again due to some poor money management. He started back as a temp there, then got hired full time again. He lost his seniority, but he got back his 5 weeks of vacation time. That was actually written in their policy at that time. He did have occasional trouble scheduling it, since he had very low seniority in the department. And there was no accruing vacation from year to year, even for management. Use it or lose it was the rule.

In some cities it is, such as SF.

While that may be true in some states, it’s not true everywhere in the US.

Department of Labor chart

Two minor corrections to the Great Cecil’s answer. Since Canada is a federation, the amount of vacation time is set by each jurisdiction. At the federal level and in 12 of the 13 provinces/territories, his answer is correct - employers are required to give at least 2 weeks of vacation time. However, most of these jurisdictions also provide that an employee who has been with the same employer for a certain number of years (often 4 or 5 years) is entitled to three weeks of paid vacation time.

In addition, there is one province, Saskatchewan, which sets a higher standard. In Saskatchewan, employees are entitled to three weeks of paid vacation time initially, shifting to four weeks after 10 years with the same employer. See: The Labour Standards Act, s. 30.

Labour standards are minimum requirements, so employers and employees can negotiate a greater amount of vacation time than the minimums set out by statute.

Sounds like my last job. My job classification was switched from exempt to non-exempt, which meant I would be paid overtime. Sounds good, right? But having read my copy of Paul Fussell’s Class to pieces, I should have had a clue what was coming. Even at the higher wage levels, an hourly job is more micromananged than an exempt one, and you are suddenly on the hook not just for delivering results, but for doing so in exactly the way instructed. What’s more, I ended up always low-balling my extensive overtime, because otherwise I was asked to justify it. And that could only be done by concurrent or retroactive record keeping that would take nearly as much time more as the actual work did.

I’ve got nothing to contribute here that hasn’t already been said, but I would like to ask for some examples supporting this statement. Thanks

I remember Spoons talking about this before. It was quite interesting. If I recall correctly (and I would be interested to hear more), one thing is that U.S. law requires collecting information about the race of people applying for jobs, whereas Canadian law forbids collecting this information. Both laws are ostensibly for the purpose of eliminating racial discrimation, but go about it in different ways.

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About the differences in US and Canadian employment law…

Yes, there are a number of differences. Suranyi has already touched on one: that in Canada, employers are forbidden to collect information on a job applicant’s race (or other protected ground) under the applicable Human Rights codes. In Canada, there is no requirement to report statistics on minority applicants to the government as there is in the United States; therefore, there is no need for an employer to ask for them.

Still at the job application stage, Canadian employers are severely restricted in obtaining information on job applicants from the applicants, and from third parties. At the application stage, it is illegal for a Canadian employer to, for example, perform a credit or criminal check on an applicant, or even ask for a driver’s license. An applicant’s Social Insurance Number (SIN) at this stage is also a definite no-go. That number is only provided to organizations that provide income to an individual–an employer will eventually need it for payroll purposes, but at the application stage before the applicant is hired, there is no reason for an employer to have it.

Why can’t the Canadian employer do these things that American employers typically do and ask for things that American employers typically ask for? Because at the application and interview stages, Canadian employers are only allowed to assess how well the applicant’s qualifications meet the job’s requirements, and nothing more. Asking for the above, and other such information, can reveal information that is (again) protected by Human Rights codes. A driver’s license, for example, shows a date of birth–and “age,” which can be discerned from the date of birth, is a protected ground. There is a great deal of trust at this stage, but the employer will get the chance to confirm what the applicant says at the conditional offer stage.

At the conditional offer stage, a Canadian employer can extend an offer of employment conditional upon passing certain checks to the employer’s satisfaction. A truck driver, for example, will have to show his or her driver’s license and driver’s abstract eventually. A bookkeeper may have to undergo a credit check, to prove he or she is not a moral hazard to the employer (likely to embezzle, in other words). Employees handling cash will typically undergo a criminal check. And so on. But none of these checks can be performed before the conditional offer is extended. In addition, there must be a reasonable connection between the job’s requirements and the check. For example, a cashier need never produce a driver’s license, since driving is not required by the job. Similarly, a computer programmer would not need to undergo a credit check. The important thing is that these checks can be performed, but only at the conditional offer stage and only if there is a reasonable connection between the check and the job.

Turning from hiring to firing, another major difference is that there is no “at will” employment in Canada. Federal and provincial legislation recognize the unequal bargaining positions of the parties in the employment relationship, and attempts to level the playing field. It does so by, among other things, making sure that terminated employees receive at least some form of severance pay based on length of service. While it remains possible to terminate an employee on the spot without severance, the only circumstances under which this can be done are clearly spelled out in the legislation, and bolstered by the caselaw. Many wrongful dismissal actions in Canada are the result of an employer who thinks “at will” employment is the way things work here. But it’s not.

Overall, the employment relationship in Canada is seen to be contractual–absent a formal, written contract (or even an informal oral one), the contractual relationship between the parties is governed by the terms and conditions in the legislation. Note also that the legislation lays down minimum standards governing the relationship; the parties may agree to exceed them if they wish, but they may not go below them. Further, each party is forbidden to “contract out” of any term in the legislation–should a party try, the attempt will be unenforceable. The legislated minimums are the minimums, and nothing can be done about them.

A good example is the subject of this thread: in all provinces except Saskatchewan, employees must receive at least two weeks of paid vacation. In Saskatchewan, the minimum is three weeks. If for some reason the employee doesn’t take his or her vacation (or falls into enumerated classes of employees that usually don’t get vacations, such as part-timers at fast-food joints), other provisions in the legislation ensure that the employee gets paid extra for the vacation they didn’t get. But no employer can force an employee to agree to forego both paid vacation and vacation pay–any such agreement would be unenforceable.

I’m speaking generally and off the top of my head, and there can be some exceptions or changing details to the above, depending on the situation. Still, that should do for now. If you like, I can provide other examples when I’m back in my office tomorrow and can consult my references and resources. Suranyi, I may also be able to address your question more fully once I’ve got those at hand. Let me know.

Hereis a graph of US mandated time off compared to other countries.

Very striking.

Yes, you have the right to work whever you want. Vacation is a benefit, not a right. If you don’t like your employer’s benefits, then go work someplace else. Most U.S. companies offer some form of vacation as a benefit. Yes they vary, typically from market to market. If Company A offers more vacation then it will become a perferred employer and attract more qualified talent. So Comany B must offer a similar vacation policy to compete with Company A for the labor pool.

We as individuals are not entitled to a job. We are not entitlted to vacation. Make sure that you have skills that are valuable and sought after by employers and you will maximize your earning potential.

In addition to Spoons’ excellent summary, I would add maternity and parental leave. In Canada, a woman who gives birth is entitled by law to a full year of maternity leave, with her job guaranteed when she gets back. The employer isn’t required to pay her salary, but she gets a certain percentage of her salary paid by Employment Insurance for the full year. (And, many large employers will “top up” the EI benefits to almost the full salary - not required to do so by law, but as an employee benefit.)

Nor does this leave have to be claimed against vacation or sick leave, which some posters in the US have said they have had to do. It’s a separate category of employment leave, guaranteed by statute.

Birth dads and adoptive mums and dads can claim parental leave of up to 35 weeks. Again, this is a statutory right, and the employer must hold their jobs for them when they get back. Their leave is also covered by EI, except that there can’t be double-dipping - generally only one of the couple can claim EI at a time. However, if they want, they can split the leave and thus the EI, with one parent taking part of the year and the other parent taking the other part.

However, there is one recent decision which allows both parents to claim EI simultaneously: twins (or other multiple births)! The EI appeals board held that in the case of twins, both parents can take leave simultaneously and each can claim EI for that period.

Employers cannot dismiss an employee because she’s pregnant, must hold the job for her on her return, and cannot discriminate against her while she’s away. Birth dads and adoptive parents have similar rights.

We had a thread on this a while ago: How much paid maternity/parental leave do you get?

These are political/ideological statements, which are not self-evidently true.

It appears that these statements have been accepted in the United States, but most other industrialised countries have concluded that they are not representative of the type of society they wish to build.

Other industrialised countries have therefore entrenched minimum levels of employment benefits for workers in their laws.