# US fingerprinting and photographing visitors **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870 "2004-01-05T20:21:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![5cents](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/46a35a/32.png) [@5cents](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5cents)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/41 "2004-01-06T17:38:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rashak Mani \* > \*\*You guys should see the questions asked in the US VISA application paper… its RIDICULOUS. Questions like: > > “Have you ever been part of Genocide ?” > “Do you have the intention of doing something illegal/sell drugs?” > > I need to get one and put the full list… so many stupid questions. Must have gotten worse since 9/11 of course. \*\* Visitor visa application (see page 2): [http://travel.state.gov/DS-0156.pdf](http://travel.state.gov/DS-0156.pdf) Immigrant visa application (see page 6): [http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-485.pdf](http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/i-485.pdf) naturalization application (see pages 6 through 9, but especially 7 and 8): [http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/N-400.pdf](http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/files/N-400.pdf) There are some legitimate questions, but there are a bunch of ridiculous ones, too. Even the legitimate questions are a bit silly - if somebody lies and checks “no”, its up to the US to figure out that they lied. Why bother asking in the first place if your going to have to do a background check anyway? It’s hard to pick out the most ridiculous, but this is a start (taken from the Immigrant visa application): > [@](#): > > Have you ever, in or outside the US, knowingly committed any crime of moral turpitude or a drug-related offense for which you have not been arrested? So let me get this straight. You smoked a joint or two when you were at college, nobody (except a few friends) saw anything, and now the US is asking you to admit to it? > [@](#): > > Have you ever within the past 10 years been a prostitute or procured anyone for prostitution, or intend to engage in such activities in the future? You know, I just want to be a programmer, but if that doesn’t work out, I think I’ll sell my body. > [@](#): > > Do you intend to engage in the US in espionage? OK, so Outer Mongolia is sending a spy to the US. He sees this question, answers yes, and is caught. > [@](#): > > Do you intend to practice polygamy in the US? I not only plan to practice it, I plan to perfect it! ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/42 "2004-01-06T17:57:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5cents \* > I not only plan to practice it, I plan to perfect it! Wrong answer. You must say: This is how I plan to perfect it. I intend to get a few mistresses, which is a lot easier and above that: a lot cheaper. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/43 "2004-01-06T19:19:31Z")
Thanks 5cents… these questions are hilarious… my favorite though is: “Do you seek to enter the US to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful purpose ? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the US Secretary of State ? Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi Government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide ?” ``` Like someone will bring their Al Qaeda Cub Scout member Card... or some old time Nazi officer is still alive. Or does being part of the Hitler Boy Scouts and shouting at jews count as being part ? ``` ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/44 "2004-01-06T19:33:14Z")
Rashak, Probably those who made up these forms believe that the whole world is completely honest and completely idiotic at that? Say for yourself: How can you have the heart to lie when you see such naïvity spread all over such forms? You must be a real criminal if you can do that. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/45 "2004-01-06T19:44:37Z")
Dudes. Al Capone went down for tax evasion. Of course, nobody expects the terrorists to fill out these forms truthfully. That’s not the point. It’s so when they do get caught doing something wrong, they can add an additional charge to the indictment of lying to an agent or something–and they’d have clear written proof. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/46 "2004-01-06T19:54:11Z")
_::yawn_ What’s the big deal? Why not fingerprint _just in case_? Yep, it will take longer, but I’ve been through customs at airports where they didn’t check anything at all and I still had to wait for 14 hours. Yep, it will cost a lot of money, but it’ll create some jobs. \*:: rolling eyes:: \* Rashak Mani: > [@](#): > > But mommy they hit us in the WTC! wah! Was a pretty goddamn awful thing to say. btw: Why isn’t Vatican City on the list? You think the pope might have bombs under his skirt? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/47 "2004-01-06T20:05:38Z")
> [@](#): > > But mommy they hit us in the WTC! wah! Careful, this verges on Being a Jerk IMO. I don’t think you fully understand what effect 9/11 had on us. I’ll stop before I violate the new sticky. Naw, the Pope’s spoken out against the war AND the terrorism. It’s like he can’t make up his mind! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/48 "2004-01-06T20:09:35Z")
Mehitabel, Suicidal terrorists don’t mind for “additional proof” about anything because they intend not to get “caught” alive. And if they do get arrested before dying a Glorious Heroic Death, then I guess there are a lot of other charges to be made against them. And if they are not guilty of those, they automatically can’t be charged for “lying on the Visa form”. Why can’t you just admit that those questions must be invented by some lunatics who seem to be convinced that the whole world outside the USA is retarded. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/49 "2004-01-06T20:21:39Z")
Ummm, **mehitabel** , was your first remark addressed to me? I had a friend who died at the WTC. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/50 "2004-01-06T22:41:13Z")
\*\*Alde,\*\*will you be going out in a blaze of Glorious Heroic Death, or do you just admire the fucking deluded losers who do? Salami. B ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2004, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/51 "2004-01-06T22:56:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*Dudes. Al Capone went down for tax evasion. > > Of course, nobody expects the terrorists to fill out these forms truthfully. That’s not the point. It’s so when they do get caught doing something wrong, they can add an additional charge to the indictment of lying to an agent or something–and they’d have clear written proof. \*\* _Finally someone explains it._ It’s so that when ‘the terrorists’ murder a bunch of people, they can be charged with lying on their immigration form! Now it all makes sense!😃 **labmonkey** , has **Aldebaran** done something to offend you? ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/52 "2004-01-07T01:03:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avenger \* > **labmonkey** , has **Aldebaran** done something to offend you? \*\* He is actually the only person I have ever pitted on these boards. Maybe its just me(however seeing the number of times he’s been pitted I tend to believe otherwise), but I usually find his posts so neurotically anti-American and reactionary(and trust me, I am no flag-waving Bushite) that he often makes no sense. He bogs down what would otherwise be healthy debates into silly bashing of US’ers(his favourite term)…I understand he can say whatever he wants, and go ahead criticize US policy all you like, but he seems genuinely hateful, and ponies with only one trick get old…but I’m getting close to breaking the rules of GD, so I’ll just leave it at that, since you asked. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/53 "2004-01-07T10:37:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Avenger \* > \*\*_Finally someone explains it._ It’s so that when ‘the terrorists’ murder a bunch of people, they can be charged with lying on their immigration form! Now it all makes sense!😃 > > **labmonkey** , has **Aldebaran** done something to offend you? \*\* ``` Well these forms have had these questions for over 10 years that I remember... so the lawyer thingy is before 9/11... and I agree its just more ammunition for jailing people. Though naturally they might claim they only thought of committing the crime AFTER they got through customs. In which case proof of pre-meditation would have to be found. Still doesn't change the fact that the questions are very silly... the first time I saw one of them I thought it was a practical joke. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/54 "2004-01-07T14:59:01Z")
**gum** , I’m sorry for your loss. No, it wasn’t directed at you at all, but at **Rashak Mani** for making that terrible remark in the first place back on the first page. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/55 "2004-01-07T15:03:49Z")
Avenger, I think labmonkey was only expressing his preference for a certain food from which there exists a large variety made of several different ingredients worldwide. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/56 "2004-01-07T15:35:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > \*\*Dudes. Al Capone went down for tax evasion. > > Of course, nobody expects the terrorists to fill out these forms truthfully. That’s not the point. It’s so when they do get caught doing something wrong, they can add an additional charge to the indictment of lying to an agent or something–and they’d have clear written proof. \*\* Precisely. It’s why there is an entire hunk of the Justice Department - the Office of Special Investigations - which is devoted to doing things like archival research and interviewing witnesses living in other countries in order to prove that people like Nazi war criminals lied when they entered the U.S. as displaced persons. I imagine they are doing or will soon be doing the same with people who perpetuated genocide in the former Yugoslavia and in other places. Why bother? Well, if you can show that someone entered the U.S. by committing fraud, you can revoke every immigration benefit (like U.S. citizenship) that was granted based on that initial fraud, no matter how long after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/57 "2004-01-07T16:09:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > Why bother? Well, if you can show that someone entered the U.S. by committing fraud, you can revoke every immigration benefit (like U.S. citizenship) that was granted based on that initial fraud, no matter how long after the fact. Of course, although it is in my opinion a rather far sought attempt to find additional evidence in these particular cases. And of course other nations have a procedure including similar questions, depending on their conditions for immigration/citizenship. Yet that doesn’t change the fact that such quesitons are perceived by outsiders as being invented by people who take the rest of the world for retarded 🙂 Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/58 "2004-01-07T16:58:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aldebaran \* > [Of course, although it is in my opinion a rather far sought attempt to find additional evidence in these particular cases. It’s not so much a matter of additional evidence IMO as a question of jurisdiction. Does the U.S. have the jurisdictional authority to prosecute crimes committed outside the U.S. that didn’t affect any people who were U.S. citizens at the time? Probably not. Does the U.S. have the authority to prosecute someone who breaks U.S. immigration laws? One would be hard pressed to argue with that. As for what the rest of the world thinks of us: well, nobody has ever accused U.S. immigration authorities of expending too much effort on P.R. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/59 "2004-01-07T17:23:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eva Luna \* > \*\*As for what the rest of the world thinks of us: well, nobody has ever accused U.S. immigration authorities of expending too much effort on P.R. \*\* Ain’t that the truth. And now it seems that, thanks to those geniuses at the TSA, people travelling to the US aren’t even allowed to line up to [use the crapper](http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/01/07/1073437336557.html). > [@](#): > > A US demand for airline passengers to be banned from queuing for the toilet would need to be handled tactfully by Qantas, acting [Australian] Prime Minister John Anderson said today. > > Mr Anderson, who is also transport minister, said the government had no plans to similarly ban toilet crowding on incoming flights to Australia. > > Qantas began informing passengers last night about the toilet queue ban but said it was too early yet to gauge customer reaction. > > “The US Transport Security Administration are now requiring that passengers on flights to the US are not to congregate in groups in any areas of the aircraft, especially around the lavatories,” a Qantas spokeswoman said. > > \ > > Mr Anderson said the directive seemed hard to handle. > > “I guess what the US authorities are looking for is any kind of suspicious congregation of behaviour that might be in some way related to, you know, preparing for something nasty to launch an attack on a plane or something like that,” he said. > > "This is going to require a bit of commonsense and a bit of tact. > > “I wouldn’t want to overreact, but I’d have to say, as the reports at the moment, I have to say do sound a little bit hard to handle.” Wow! Even the Australian government, one of the world leaders in American-ass-kissing over the past couple of years, thinks this is a silly idea. As a representative of the Australian airline industry said: > [@](#): > > “It’s obvious that whoever thought this up in the US authority hasn’t travelled on a 14-hour flight to Australia.” No shit, Sherlock! I made that flight only a few weeks ago, and not only are bathroom breaks a necessity, but one’s comfort and health also require periodic walks up and down the aisle to get the blood circulating in one’s legs again. Due to the country’s isolation, flights to and from Australia have some of the highest recorded instances of potentially-fatal Deep Vein Thrombosis, and it’s prudent to exercise on such long-haul trips. The way the TSA is going, pretty soon embarking passengers will be chained to their seats and knocked unconscious for the duration of the flight. Hey, at least they could pack us in more tightly then, which would have the added benefit of increasing airline profit, another priority of the Bush administration. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870/60 "2004-01-07T18:57:35Z")
Good article in the [Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/07/international/07TRAV.html?hp) about the varying reactions around the world to the new policy. Turns out, to my surprise, that some countries have their own air marshalls already besides Israel, including Germany and Switzerland, and that the French don’t mind it much either. **mhendo** , I’d be interested in a link from the TSA itself about that policy. Doesn’t sound right. I suppose it’s midsummer and silly season for Aussie papers so maybe they’re exaggerating a bit? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-fingerprinting-and-photographing-visitors/222870.md?page=4)