# US Flag on Moon question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 28, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263 "2003-09-28T07:13:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/1 "2003-09-28T07:13:14Z")
Are there any recent photographs of the US flag on the moon? I’m not too hip on my physics and astronomy, but I’d assume the flag would still be there and that if we didn’t have a telescope capable of viewing it, some satellite could’ve picked up a few photos by now.
Links graciously accepted.
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### Author:  [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/2 "2003-09-28T07:31:47Z")
That’s a pretty minute object to detect from so far away. Also, its orientation with respect to earth probably leaves a very small visible cross section. We do have corner cube reflectors up there that can be located with earth based lasers on a routine basis.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/3 "2003-09-28T07:36:25Z")
IIRC, the remains of the LM’s would wind up being something like 1 pixel in the best telescope we’ve got. There _was_, however, a company that’s planning on sending probes to the Moon to photograh the various landing sites, and other features on the Moon. Can’t remember they’re name, but if they ever get the stuff launched, they’ll be lots of info about it.
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### Author:  [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/4 "2003-09-28T08:08:25Z")
[European moon launch blasts off](http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/09/28/moon.launch/)
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/5 "2003-09-28T08:25:37Z")
I thought I remembered reading that the flag was knocked over by the liftoff- does anybody know what I might be recalling, or if it’s true?
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### Author:  [@JohnJet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnJet)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/6 "2003-09-28T08:54:43Z")
If it was then wouldn’t they have to burn it? Boy, I bet someone at the smithsonian would be screwed then.
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/7 "2003-09-28T09:11:27Z")
I don’t know. Do any of those rules apply on the moon? (I’m pretty sure the flag was metal and not cloth anyway.)
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### Author:  [@Austin\_city\_limits](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Austin_city_limits)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/8 "2003-09-28T09:32:16Z")
I seem to remember that it was knocked down by the lift-off, maybe i am wrong…
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/9 "2003-09-28T09:53:35Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Austin city limits \*
> \*\*I seem to remember that it was knocked down by the lift-off, maybe i am wrong… \*\*
[http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/mars/reference/flag/flag.html](http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/mars/reference/flag/flag.html)
> [@](#):
>
> It is uncertain if the flag remained standing or was blown over by the engine blast when the ascent module took off.
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/10 "2003-09-28T09:56:22Z")
Couldn’t Hubble have a quick gander for the remains?
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### Author:  [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/11 "2003-09-28T10:01:12Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \*
> **IIRC, the remains of the LM’s would wind up being something like 1 pixel in the best telescope we’ve got.**
Actually, it’s more like 1/100 of a pixel. One meter on the moon corresponds to 0.5 milli-arcseconds.
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/12 "2003-09-28T10:02:27Z")
Then again, also according to NASA:
[http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo\_11\_30th.html](http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_11_30th.html)
> [@](#):
>
> The flag was actually knocked over when by the LM’s exhaust when the astronauts took off from the Moon at 1:54 p.m. EDT on July 21.
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/13 "2003-09-28T10:08:17Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by jjimm \*
> \*\*Couldn’t Hubble have a quick gander for the remains? \*\*
From an earlier thread on this topic: [The American flag on the moon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=157602)
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by pipper \*
> \*\*OK, seems like the Hubbel can resolve detail .05 arcseconds across. [Cite.](http://hubblesite.org/sci.d.tech/nuts_.and._bolts/res101.shtml)
>
> The moon is 1,800 arcseconds across when viewed from earth (I realize this will be slightly different from Hubbel’s orbit, but let go with it for now).
>
> Since the moons diameter is 3476 km and we will make the assumption that a flag is roughly 1 m wide… urgh… uh… carry the two…
>
> And we have the result that a flag is roughly .0005 arcseconds wide when viewed from earth.
>
> Which puts it at a size 100 times smaller than the Hubbel can resolve.
>
> Bummer. \*\*
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### Author:  [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/14 "2003-09-28T10:10:18Z")
I wonder what shape the flags are in with 30+ years exposure to the harsh sunlight of the lunar environment.
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### Author:  [@Desmostylus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Desmostylus)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/15 "2003-09-28T10:16:12Z")
Look in that earlier thread I linked to, **Icerigger**.
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### Author:  [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/16 "2003-09-28T12:14:52Z")
[This page](http://www.tass-survey.org/richmond/answers/lunar_lander.html) has copies of the handful of photos with evidence of the landings taken from elsewhere. It turns out that it was just possible for the Apollo astronauts to photograph the lander’s shadow from lunar orbit under favourable conditions. More recently, the [Clementine mission](http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/clementine/clementine.html) detected a discoloured patch at the site of the Apollo 15 landing site, presumed to be the disturbed surface caused by the blast-off. It also carried out a detailed study of the [Apollo 16 landing site](http://www.lpi.usra.edu/expmoon/Apollo16/A16_lsite.html) to add to our scientific understanding of the area, but doesn’t seem to have found anything produced by the landing.
So, no, not much hope of seeing any of the flags without going back to the surface.
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/17 "2003-09-28T12:25:55Z")
Thanks.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/18 "2003-09-28T14:05:59Z")
The moon is also zipping across the sky at a pretty quick clip. It’s distance from Earth is, say, 250000 miles, so it has an orbital circumference of about 1,570,000 miles, which it covers in a month (~29 days), giving it a speed of about 2255mph or 0.62miles per second.
It’s pretty damn hard to focus on an object as small as the landing sites while it’s moving that fast. If we really needed pics of the flags (and personally, I’m disinclined to spend money trying to disprove the nutty beliefs of moon hoaxers) it would be easier to put an object in orbit around the moon and snap a lot of pictures, spy-plane style.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/19 "2003-09-28T14:10:24Z")
[Coleman Francis]
Flag on the moon. How did it get there?
[CF]
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [September 28, 2003, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/us-flag-on-moon-question/204263/20 "2003-09-28T18:32:48Z")
> [@](#):
>
> If it was then wouldn’t they have to burn it?
I suppose it depends on what your definition of “ground” is. You could also argue that it’s on the top of a 384,400 km flagpole, and it’s just pulled up tight against the capitol. Which is probably no sillier than trying to apply the flag code to the Moon.
On the other hand, if we can use this as an excuse for the politicians for us to go back to the Moon, then I’m all for it. “But Senator, the flags on the Moon have been flying in darkness and in harsh weather, and have been lying in the dirt! We need to go get them to dispose of them properly!”
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